USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment??

[divnswoop 0]

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NO!!! She is the only voice some of us have. You can not erase the dessenting opinion.

No?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3086729#3086729

[Thanatos340 1]

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Her actions can only be considered in light of the actual situation at the time of her actions. You are correct in your claim that if the GM program did not exist, the lawsuit may have not existed, but the reality is that it did, and it did.

So was the real root cause of us getting screwed The GM program or Jans actions? Which came first?

The reality is this motion should fail if RDs and NDs I have talked to told me the truth about their feelings. Enough have said they do not feel that there is cause to impeach her that there is no way the 2/3 majority will be reached.

Unless the executive committee pulls some stunt that excludes voting members (Such as calling for the vote before everyone arrives). Politics can get real sleazy like that sometimes.

So if this is actually handled above board, It is a waste of time. I just hope that if there is a Vote, the general membership gets a chance to find out how their representatives voted.

[davelepka 4]

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Thinking in terms of the greater good of the organization, can you see how Jan needs to be removed from the board?

Not from a peronsal standpoint, or even based on what you know to be the 'right' thing to do, but based on the legal situation as it currently exists.

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Yes, I can.
I did not begin the day yesterday with that opinion. I'm uncomfortable with my opinion now, but believe it's the appropriate opinion.

I'm not 'comfortable' with it either, but the USPA is in damage control mode, and this is what needs to happen.

We all know that there was no malice toward the USPA on Jan's part. We also know that her actions were really for the greater good of all skydivers, and future skydivers.

Much like Skyride has used very slim legal standings to defend it's business practices, they used the same standings to push the USPA into this postition.

I wouldn't be surprised if one the terms of the settlement was her impaechment at the next BOD meeting.

I have a feeling that Skyride wasn't looking to destroy the USPA, which is why they agreed to a settlement. They could have easily pushed through the trial, and drained the USPA resources enough that the final judgement would have sealed the USPAs coffin.

I don't think they wanted that because the Skyride crew are still skydivers looking to make money off of skydiving, and by and large the USPA is good for people trying to make money off of skydiving.

If Jan were to remian on the board, and another situation was to occur, even if it didn't involve Jan, the fact that she was allowed to remain after opening up the organization to great legal liability points toward the USPA being mis-managed, and weakens it's legs in any future suit.

If that suit was brought by an entity that had no concern for the future of, or even the overall existance or the USPA, it's not hard to imagine that suit marking an expensive, embarrasing, and damaging end to the USPA.

[airtwardo 7]

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I understand that, but if someone is suing the USPA, aren't they in effect, suing us? I guess my thinking is that if the USPA exists only because of us, and it is OUR organization, no settlements should be made without being put forth to the membership via their ND-RD's. If WE decide to tell the suing parties to piss off at the expense of bankrupting ourselves, that should be our right. AT LEAST, we should be told how our money (or whatever the conditions) is being spent to settle something we never agreed to settle.

I hear you man, but that's why we have elections. There's no practical way to run an organization of 32,000 people if you intend to hold general elections on every issue.

So we elect a representative to handle that business. By giving someone your vote during the elections, you're giving them your vote during every BOD meeting, and on every issue that comes across their desk.

Exactly.

The USPA is a 'buffer' of sorts, yes it 'is' us, but on the other hand, say a lawsuit (of any type) goes against the USPA for say....15 million, do we all buck up 500,000 to pay it off?

How far do you take the US argument?!

It's a trust in judgement thing between the membership and the governing body.

You elect officials to run the organization, if you don't like the way it's run, if you no longer 'trust their judgement' ...elect new officials.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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NO!!! She is the only voice some of us have. You can not erase the dessenting opinion.

No?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3086729#3086729

What does that have to do with anything? More then likely this think was settled after a cost analysis. If we are going to get rid of people then we get gid of all that voted to out Skyride. And as for you notion that the law suit would not have gone to court if there was no merit, I say bull shit. There are cases creeping through our court system everyday that have no merit. Brought there by the lawyers that are getting rich from the system that they helped to create. Hey, sounds familiar doesn't it.

[wrightskyguy 1]

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Thinking in terms of the greater good of the organization, can you see how Jan needs to be removed from the board?

Not from a peronsal standpoint, or even based on what you know to be the 'right' thing to do, but based on the legal situation as it currently exists.

I can see it. Should we let things continue as they are, then USPA loses thier (our) ass in litigation, our already high dues are doubled to cover the cost, yeah, nobody would bitch about that. Just as long as Jan was allowed to stay in office. Sometimes it's painful, but you've got to consider the greater good.

John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

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[diablopilot 2]

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Cutting their ties with someone who has in the past made statements and set up websites relating to Skyride may be necessary before the USPA is actually able to take any further action in relation to Skyride.

I know there's a substantial conspiracy theory here in this thread... but it is just possible that the USPA is doing this so that they can in the future take action against Skyride without getting sued again.

...maybe.

As an aside, there really is only one way to address this "skyride issue", and that's complete elimination of the Group Membership program.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Thanatos340 1]

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then USPA loses thier (our) ass in litigation, our already high dues are doubled to cover the cost, yeah, nobody would bitch about that.

What exactly did this cost the USPA? Anyone Know? I strongly suspect that they only thing the USPA paid out of pocket for this entire fiasco was the deductible on their liability insurance policy. If that cost was spread among all out member it would probably be less than a very cheap cup of instant coffee.

Once again.. It is easy to say that this was Jans fault but the reality is the REAL reason we had to settle was because the USPA created the Group membership program in the first place making us appear to be a Trade organization instead of a Member organization.

I challenge ANYONE to find a single post from Jan on the Skyride issues after the lawsuit was filed. Good Luck.

As for the Suit.. It NEVER went to Trail in fact in never even completed the discovery phase.

People saying that it was Jans fault.. Tell me exactly what she did to cause this and when did it happen?

I can say with confidence that what caused this was the USPA created a Group Membership program that made them look like a trade organization. Anything after that is irrelevant. We were doomed to failure from that point forward no matter what else happened.

I also believe that the EC is trying to use Jan as a scapegoat and blame her for their own mishandling of this issue.

Want to make sure this doesn’t happen again?? Scrap the GM program and have the USPA go back to representing the general membership.

[gjhdiver 0]

I shall reserve judgment until I am in receipt of all the facts. I know that may strike some of you as a radical suggestion, when clearly, there's no problem so severe that it can't be solved by some keyboard flexing on dropzone.com

In the near on quarter century that I've been a USPA member, I can't recall more than a couple of impeachment attempts. It's not done lightly, and I doubt sincerely whether it would be brought by one Skyride influenced board member, as there would be little or no chance of success.

There's a procedure in place to let this play out. Turning up at board meeting wearing matching T-Shirts is not going to influence it. Boycotting a DZ isn't going to influence it. Let's see just what the issue is shall we ?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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It's almost standard practice in a settlement that the defendants are required to keep the details of the settlement confidential. These datials may have included the removal of Jan from the BOD..

I don't believe that a condition like that would be enforceable.

[NWFlyer 2]

Stop making so much sense, Gareth. I'm trying to learn what I can prior to the meeting, but so far I've discounted most of what I've heard if it didn't come directly from a member of the BOD.

I'm still going to turn up at the board meeting (probably not in a matching t-shirt), so I can learn something, voice my opinion if there's an opportunity to do so, and participate in the process. It's the least I can do as a member of a membership organization - to let my elected representatives know that I'm around and paying attention.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Want to make sure this doesn’t happen again?? Scrap the GM program and have the USPA go back to representing the general membership.

This will never happen because if it did then the USPA could not strongarm the DZs into requiring USPA membership. Hmm,talk about influencing business practices.

[packerboy 3]

Alot of people are upset with those who seem to be in bed with Skyride.. why don't you just try and get those people impeached.. I'm sure if you dig far enough, you'de be able to find grounds.

BTW... who is in bed with Skyride? I have a hate on for Skyride, but I see these shiny happy faces in Parachutist and.... well they don't really bother me. Who's picture should I be scowling at?

BTW, if you are a BOD or RD or ND or EC member of the USPA, you should probably refrain from answering that question... or at least maybe do it in a PM

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[DSE 5]

I don't believe it's a secret that Skydive Dallas, owned by Lee Schlichtemeier (Southwest RD and USPA Treasurer) supports Skyride/accepts their coupons.

[mjosparky 4]

Jan,

You and I have not always seen eye to eye on everything. But you were there when issues concerning the welfare of the jumpers were present.

It is my opinion that Banks is letting his personal feeling influence his judgment and turning this into a vendetta. It is time he stepped down.

If in fact you do get impeached, dinner and drinks are on me at any restaurant of your choice west of the Mississippi. And Glen can eat at Denny’s.

Sparky

Demigods come in all flavors.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Zenister 0]

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I Skydivers simply don't care for the most part enough to vote with what counts, money. Therefore nothing will change.

QFT..

on more issues than simply this... skydivers are a selfish bunch of entitled bastards..

"it doesn't affect MY jumping, why should I care??" I've heard more than once...

time for an alternative to the USPA and to dropzones that are more about the 'business of' than the 'activity of' skydiving.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[diablopilot 2]

In 9 years I've seen at least 3 alternatives to the USPA come and go. The problem is getting people to support ANOTHER whale.

It's time to take back the USPA, and return to a member driven organization.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Zenister 0]

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I will remove my drop zone from the list of USPA Group Members, and make it known that Individual Membership is no longer required at my DZ.

Martin
Air Capital Drop Zone

if/when this happens i will be up to jump in kansas (and any other non USPA/non Skyride DZ) as soon as my schedule will allow..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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[popsjumper 2]

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....It is my opinion that Banks is letting his personal feeling influence his judgment and turning this into a vendetta. It is time he stepped down.

Is...Turning? Wrong tense...this has been going on for quite a while.

This has turned into quite a convoluted mess. I'm at the point of just throwing up my hands and saying, "Fuck it. Wipe the entire slate clean and start over with new." The problem with that is that some innocents will get bashed in the process.


You can bet that Ben, Cary and all their supporters are reading all this and jerking off in gleeful ecstasy.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jtval 0]

With all the controversy going on I bet Ben and carey can throw their names in and people who have "HEARD" about this will just vote for the "NON-encumbants."

You think they'll look at the names? Problem is that the votes don't take place until November iirc and by that time no one will remember this whole event.

My photos

My Videos

[stratostar 5]

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You can bet that Ben, Cary and all their supporters are reading all this and jerking off in gleeful ecstasy.

This is true, it's who is sitting on the inside of the circle with mouth open waiting to get creamed, is the person or persons you have to look out for.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[peckerhead 0]

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Unfortunately, I don't plan on seeing more than 10-15 people who post/ bitch on DZ.com there...

And that is 10 to 15 more than was there the last time. Its a start.

Actually 10 to 15 members did show up at the last meeting. Mostly from the group presenting the BSR proposal for high performance landing safety.

Oh yeah, and they were wearing matching T-shirts.

[gjhdiver 0]

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I'm not 'comfortable' with it either, but the USPA is in damage control mode, and this is what needs to happen.

We all know that there was no malice toward the USPA on Jan's part. We also know that her actions were really for the greater good of all skydivers, and future skydivers.

Much like Skyride has used very slim legal standings to defend it's business practices, they used the same standings to push the USPA into this postition.

I wouldn't be surprised if one the terms of the settlement was her impaechment at the next BOD meeting.

I have a feeling that Skyride wasn't looking to destroy the USPA, which is why they agreed to a settlement. They could have easily pushed through the trial, and drained the USPA resources enough that the final judgement would have sealed the USPAs coffin.

I don't think they wanted that because the Skyride crew are still skydivers looking to make money off of skydiving, and by and large the USPA is good for people trying to make money off of skydiving.

If Jan were to remian on the board, and another situation was to occur, even if it didn't involve Jan, the fact that she was allowed to remain after opening up the organization to great legal liability points toward the USPA being mis-managed, and weakens it's legs in any future suit.

If that suit was brought by an entity that had no concern for the future of, or even the overall existance or the USPA, it's not hard to imagine that suit marking an expensive, embarrasing, and damaging end to the USPA.

Let's just say without giving away too much, that you all need to read this post carefully, then go away, sit down and think for a while, read it again, and then pause before you all post some more conspricacy theories.

Whilst I don't always agree with USPA on all issues, the fact is, that if it goes away, so will half of your drop zones. SIngle entities won't have the collective bargaining power to fight for access like the association does. Complaining about USPA being political is laughable. You hold fucking elections for it. Of course it's political. I guarantee that whatever drop zone you jump at is politcal at a local level too. It's the nature of the beast.

On the whole, USPA does a good job for all of us. Let this play out, look at the issues and the evidence and reasoning, and then form your opinions. Then vote accordingly. If it's that bad, stand for the board. The voting for baord members is laughably low for the membership. We really have very little to bitch about if we don't pay enough attention to vote.

[Amazon 7]

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The voting for baord members is laughably low for the membership. We really have very little to bitch about if we don't pay enough attention to vote.

I fully intend to vote.. and I will keep an eye on what is going on. I was just going to say the hell with it and send my money to CSPA this year out of protest.. but NOW.. I think it best to just lobby everyone I know about who on the board is SELF SERVING rather than serving the membership.. I will do EVERYTING in my power to ensure that everyone I come in contact with over the next 9 months knows about who is there that is on a power trip and power hungry and who supports him and his abuse of the power that was delegated to him. That will make more of a statement to them.. one they can understand. If only one USPA Member per DZ in the country makes it known to their fellow members of what has been going on...and makes even a few other jumpers to VOTE ( get some ballots and pass them to your friends yourself) Those who do NOT serve our intereests will be gone.... and good riddence

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I was just going to say the hell with it and send my money to CSPA this year out of protest..

If you only knew.