Skyhook question

[auburnguy 0]

I was having a review session for my A card this weekend and I posed a question my instructor nor myself knew. If you get unto a malfunction where you become entangled in the lines and you have a skyhook is it going to affect your reserve deployment at all?

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[Squeak 17]

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I was having a review session for my A card this weekend and I posed a question my instructor nor myself knew. If you get unto a malfunction where you become entangled in the lines and you have a skyhook is it going to affect your reserve deployment at all?

anytime you have lines around you it can efffect the reserve deployment.
The skyhook should not operate though.
go to UPT website and read up on how it works.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[riggerpaul 1]

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I was having a review session for my A card this weekend and I posed a question my instructor nor myself knew. If you get unto a malfunction where you become entangled in the lines and you have a skyhook is it going to affect your reserve deployment at all?

As the first reply mentions, anytime you have something hung up on your body, your chances of a clean reserve deployment are greatly decreased. I have seen videos of reserve pilotchutes doing the strangest things to find something with which to tangle.

That said, the skyhook system "chooses" whichever "pilotchute" is creating more drag, and that one will deploy the reserve.

If the cutaway main is clear and at least partially open, then it will generally create more drag than the reserve pilotchute and it will "win", dragging the freebag out. As an added benefit, the freebag will often stay attached to the main via the rsl lanyard and be recovered with the main.

It the cutaway main canopy is not generating more drag than the reserve pilot chute, the skyhook lanyard will come off the hook and the regular pilot chute will try to do its job.

So, if the main somehow hung up on you, and the reserve pilotchute finds air in the first place, the skyhook lanyard will come off the hook and give you a chance at getting a reserve deployed. Exactly how that deployment progresses can be a crapshoot.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

If you get unto a malfunction where you become entangled in the lines and you have a skyhook is it going to affect your reserve deployment at all?

Tough question... I think the root of your question though is "will the skyhook improve the odds of survival, reduce them, or have no effect?" Unfortunately, in this case the answer is "Nobody knows!"

One could imagine a situation where the main, which is still entagled with you but has been cut away helps the reserve get out more quickly and in the "right direction" and therefore helps you.

One could also imagine a situation where the direct physical connection actually makes things worse by causing or exacerbating a partial main-reserve entanglement.

Each such event is unique, and you would never know which one you were in. Even were one to have this occur, a survivor would have no way to know if the skyhook actually helped, and a fatality would offer no clue as to wether the skyhook made things worse.

Bottom line: entaglements with your main are BAD SHIT! Don't get into one! But if you're in one, the presence or lack of a skyhook (or standard RSL, for that matter) is irrelevant. Your priorities are 1) get dientangled FAST and 2) get your reserve out above your hard deck no matter what.

P.S. with properly packed, modern gear and a stable deployment, entanglement with the main is almost unheard-of. The exception is cameramen, and even then it's pretty damn uncommon.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[riggerrob 643]

Agreed!
These days the most likely cause of an entanglement is colliding with someone under canopy .. someone who is too busy, turning off his camera, un-zipping his booties, rolling and stowing his slider behind his head, attaching his slider to his reserve container, setting up ofr his MAAAAADDDD 9,847 degree turn in to the swoop lane, etc.

Remember that it takes two to entangle but only one to avoid a collision.
The simple answer is pulling your head out of your @$$ quicker than the other guy and riser -turning away before he can ruin your day.
Don't bother chewing him out after landing, because chances are - he really did not see. you.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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I was having a review session for my A card this weekend and I posed a question my instructor nor myself knew. If you get unto a malfunction where you become entangled in the lines and you have a skyhook is it going to affect your reserve deployment at all?

As the first reply mentions, anytime you have something hung up on your body, your chances of a clean reserve deployment are greatly decreased. I have seen videos of reserve pilotchutes doing the strangest things to find something with which to tangle.

That said, the skyhook system "chooses" whichever "pilotchute" is creating more drag, and that one will deploy the reserve.

If the cutaway main is clear and at least partially open, then it will generally create more drag than the reserve pilotchute and it will "win", dragging the freebag out. As an added benefit, the freebag will often stay attached to the main via the rsl lanyard and be recovered with the main.

It the cutaway main canopy is not generating more drag than the reserve pilot chute, the skyhook lanyard will come off the hook and the regular pilot chute will try to do its job.

So, if the main somehow hung up on you, and the reserve pilotchute finds air in the first place, the skyhook lanyard will come off the hook and give you a chance at getting a reserve deployed. Exactly how that deployment progresses can be a crapshoot.

Sepeculation...


OR... The skyhook / freebag / etc. could all stay attached to the main that you're entangled with and the reserve pilot chute not launch clear and give you a clean reserve deployment which might have happened on a "traditional" system sans skyhook... and you wistle in trailing a bunch of trash ala "blood on the risers".

Like you say, "...anytime you have something hung up on your body, your chances of a clean reserve deployment are greatly decreased...", but folks wonder why IMO I'm not totally sold on the Skyhook... yet... and the seemingly "mad rush" SOME mfgrs and users in the industry/sport are ensuing in towards its institution.

Don't mean to drag this thread off on yet another RSL vs. no RSL debate or Skyhook vs. no Skyhook bash session... just trying to point out... there are Pros and Cons to everything... when someone in skydiving trys to tell you something like "this is perfect... it'll fix all your problems... there's no downside" or the like... be afraid, be very afraid... it means they haven't thought through (or yet discovered) all the failure modes.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Agreed!
These days the most likely cause of an entanglement is colliding with someone under canopy .. someone who is too busy, turning off his camera, un-zipping his booties, rolling and stowing his slider behind his head, attaching his slider to his reserve container, setting up ofr his MAAAAADDDD 9,847 degree turn in to the swoop lane, etc.

Remember that it takes two to entangle but only one to avoid a collision.
The simple answer is pulling your head out of your @$$ quicker than the other guy and riser -turning away before he can ruin your day.
Don't bother chewing him out after landing, because chances are - he really did not see. you.

Rob,

I agree with you that the most likely cause of an entaglement is a collision with someone else when under canopy... and would like to see someone perform these 9847 deg hooks to a swoop you speak of...

However... lets not forget that "self" entanglements with one's own deploying main, although rare, can and do happen. There was a fatality at Taft this past year where just that happened... yes, there were additional complicating / compounding issues, but it started out that way. Also, another corner case I'll admit, but how many times have you seen or read about a tandem pair having to go to the reserve after the drouge got horseshoed when the TM went to set it for what ever reason?

[auburnguy 0]

so... get a hook knife.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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so... get a hook knife.

A hook knife was part of the "additional issues" in the Taft fatality I speak of. After entangling himself in his main, he shot his reserve, which didn't deploy / inflate fully, but did inflate somewhat... so out came the hook knife and he went to work... the speculation being in an attempt to cut himself free of his main... but in the process cutting not only main, but reserve lines, which caused his partially inflated reserve to be even less so.


That's the problem with some of these discussions. One can speculate until the cows come home. In this incident, one could speculate that the deceased might have survived riding the main / reserve entanglement in if he hadn't had a hook knife... i.e. "get a hook knife", as is your proposed solution... or... maybe not... its difficult, if even possible to say one way or another if any given incident or scenario would have, could have, should have turned out different if such and such would have or wouldn't have been done. My point being, having / using a hook knife may or may not be the proper solution to an entanglement... having, not having a skyhook may or may not be the "hand of God" (or hand of Booth... which ever you prefer) that will save you.

[ryoder 1,590]

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Agreed!
These days the most likely cause of an entanglement is colliding with someone under canopy .. someone who is too busy, turning off his camera, un-zipping his booties, rolling and stowing his slider behind his head, attaching his slider to his reserve container, setting up ofr his MAAAAADDDD 9,847 degree turn in to the swoop lane, etc.

Rob,

I agree with you that the most likely cause of an entaglement is a collision with someone else when under canopy... and would like to see someone perform these 9847 deg hooks to a swoop you speak of...

It was all a misunderstanding; Rob thought he saw a 9847 deg hook, but it was really just a guy riding a spinning mal into the ground. It's tough to tell the difference these days.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.