H&P @ 12K

[henryvillar 0]

I don't know if its because there are just about no CRW jumpers at my DZ, but I seem to be the only one who likes to do a H&P at 12K.
Whenever I inform people that I'll be doing one, I get all kinds weird looks and comments.
I find these jumps give me plenty of time to mess around and practice a bit of canopy control.
Am I the only one that does this?

The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary.

[dragon2 2]

No

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Halfpastniner 0]

Its a lot of fun to do when there are fun looking clouds up there.

Of course only doing it without breaking any BSR's

BASE 1384

[the_sarge 0]

We are a couple of guys at our dropzone who like to do some high altitude semi-CRW (no contact) during the summer.

Try to convince some of your friends to come along with you. That will make it even better.

At sunset, the scenery can be amazing...

http://halfer.dk/IMG_5605.jpg

[airtwardo 7]

NICE pic!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kkeenan 14]

Quote

Am I the only one that does this?

Screw their looks and comments.
Here's 100 people doing a H&P together last November...

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Kell.nl 0]

Probably about 1 in 10ish jumps I do is a H&P from full altitude (13k here).

I get the same as you: weird looks and questions about why.
I like playing with my canopy. One of the things I really like to do up high is doing turns (90, 180, 360 degrees) with different inputs with my eyes closed. I like to feel instead of to see what I do. And of course, I only do that after thoroughly checking my airspace, before closing my eyes. Even though I am the only one opening at 13k, I still want to make sure :P

[fmmobley 0]

It is especially nice at sunset near the ocean...

... Marion

[jwilkinson 0]

Pics like that are the reason I am getting into the sport. oh..and the fact that I felt it was safer than doing 170 on the scooter.

[madhatter 0]

I used to do that quite often at my previous dz... Must admit it was loads, though

A VERY MERRY UNBIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!
D.S # 125

[moto89 0]

I love full altitude H&P's!

Less talking, more flying.

[rtwats 0]

I like to do them when the upper winds are high. cross country. Once we went out 10 miles.

[voltage 0]

I like to do them, too.

But with high winds how do you manage to get back to the DZ? Do you have detailed information about winds at different altitudes beforehand and make a flight plan?

Or do you accept the possibility to land out?

[grannyinthesky 0]

Quote

NICE pic!

I'll second that. I'd sure like to be able to do pictures like that some day. [big sigh]

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[grannyinthesky 0]

Quote

Pics like that are the reason I am getting into the sport.

That's probably my second place reason. The fun/excitement of jumping is the first place reason.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[BerryBoy 0]

Quote

But with high winds how do you manage to get back to the DZ? Do you have detailed information about winds at different altitudes beforehand and make a flight plan?

Or do you accept the possibility to land out?

I'd love to know the answer to that too. Along with a few more. How many jumps until it is safe and/or allowed to be done by a jumper? Does it require training of some sort to know how to deal with different winds or other conditions/safety concerns? Also, how long would you typically be under canopy after opening at 12K?

I know this is something that I will want to do one day, so this topic really interests me.

[relyon 0]

voltage and BerryBoy:

Downwind runs. Get out far upwind and head back. You still need some sort of plan, but it's a little easier to figure out. It used to be done all the time during the days of ground to air CRW competition video; it made for a better camera angle.

You always have to be ready for landing out regardless. Make the decision to land out up high when you still have options to choose rather than down low where you're forced into what you have. Another major point is don't let yourself get straight up over the LZ higher than 2000' (my personal altitude is 1500'). You're playing with potentially becoming a statistic if you do.

Bob

[JohanW 0]

Talk to a pilot, they understand winds aloft. But it's basic arithmetic really. Figure 1 minute per 1000 ft. Leave some margin, you still want to fly a pattern before landing.

The wind you fly in is just the relative wind, the absolute wind is just taking you places.

The XC jump we did last year in Moorsele had one guy on a static line Manta with it. I could guess at his jump numbers, but so can you. We exited between, oh 8 and 12 miles out. We landed between 4 and 6 miles out I think. Yes, it's a risk you take. Decide early, and carry a cell phone. It helps if there are 50 of you (first one down can decide on a decent field for the rest; keep in mind not everyone can land on a dime), it's the last load of the day anyway, and people have beer money on them.

I've done one earlier in higher upper winds from 8 miles, where almost everyone made the DZ. On that occasion, it was established Triathlons do not float as well as Stilettos. No surprise there (think number of cells).

I don't pull high for RW with clouds, I have a wingsuit for that (though I might pull at 6 for sunset). I do pull high for recreational HP CReW.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[smears 0]

Hate to be dumb, but what do you mean by "don't let yourself get straight up over the LZ higher than 2000' (my personal altitude is 1500'). You're playing with potentially becoming a statistic if you do?"

[daremrc 0]

someone please correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I understand it...

You lose approximately 1000 ft of altitude in a minute under canopy, this may be different for you depending on what you fly but we'll use it for simplicity's sake here.

then you take your winds aloft and average both the heading and speed.

for example, If I come up with an average heading of 180 and an average speed of 30 MPH, I know that I will travel about a mile north for every 2000 feet or two minutes of canopy time. If I'm open at 12k, I can open approximately 6 miles south of the DZ and expect to be relatively close to my landing area when I get down to ground level.

Of course you want to plan both to keep an eye on the DZ, and potentially land out because the winds aloft forecasts are just that - forecasts. I wouldn't plan such a jump without approval of the dropzone and the guidance of someone who's successfully done one before..

While I enjoy high pulls, I learned the hard way that it's best to do them on days where the spot is very, very close to the landing area. Maybe this season I'll give the *planned* cross-country thing a try...

Good judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement.

[ladydyver 0]

Quote

I like to do them when the upper winds are high. cross country. Once we went out 10 miles.

I love sunset cross country jumps - they are so beautiful!

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[relyon 0]

You risk a mid-air collision if you're directly above the place where it's reasonably expected a load of freefallers will be dropped at an altitude higher than the lowest persons canopy is fully open.

Example: You're happily flying at 2300' directly below freefall group(s). One of them doesn't see you and is planning to open at 2000'. What could happen next is an excercise for the reader ...

Bob

[smears 0]

Oh ok, I understand now. I was thinking sunset load, no one else in the sky. That makes sense now though, thanks!

[kschilk 0]

Quote

Quote

But with high winds how do you manage to get back to the DZ? Do you have detailed information about winds at different altitudes beforehand and make a flight plan?

Or do you accept the possibility to land out?

I'd love to know the answer to that too. Along with a few more. How many jumps until it is safe and/or allowed to be done by a jumper? Does it require training of some sort to know how to deal with different winds or other conditions/safety concerns? Also, how long would you typically be under canopy after opening at 12K?

I know this is something that I will want to do one day, so this topic really interests me.

First off, you should always accept the possibility of landing out and be prepared for it...h&p or not. As for the winds, definitely be aware and plan your spot accordingly.....it's best to be last. Unless you're going directional, like a x-country, ya' might wanna' avoid the windier days...work your way up. Same with altitude, start lower....like 7 or 8000 ft. and work up. I've done 'em from 14,000 and though I love to do 'em, that was just too much for me.......I biffed in with some numb-ass legs. I generally do 10 or 12000, tops....depending on the canopy, wing loading, conditions and how much turning you do, you can get a good 20 to 30 minutes of air time.

You need to be relatively familiar with your canopy's descent rate but it's not so different, from a lower jump....just longer. You need to have your head on a swivel, watch for airplane traffic and heed cloud clearances, according to the BSRs (gratuitous disclaimer). I usually plan mine for the load, right before refueling so I can get down before the next load goes up (hopefully). Sunset loads are prime and landing, when there's no plane in the air, really screws with the whuffo spectators.

"T'was ever thus."

[siddacious 0]

12k(ish) hop&pops are great! I always do one for my first jump on a new canopy, when I've re-attached my risers, or just feel like getting some canopy practice. I don't see others at my DZ doing them much though. I love getting myself all stowed away, pointing away from jump run, and just cruising for a minute or two, checking out the scenery. Then I go into "let's see what this baby can do" mode. Good times! In fact, talking about this makes me want to do another.

High H&P's are an excellent time to try stalling your canopy, as well. Doing so with mine gave me a lot more confidence in the slow flight capabilities of my canopy.

Have fun, and if you're every at Byron, find me and I'll jump with you.

A dolor netus non dui aliquet, sagittis felis sodales, dolor sociis mauris, vel eu libero cras. Interdum at. Eget habitasse elementum est.