pirana 0 #51 January 21, 2008 Nobody hits the ground at terminal and lives. Think about it; it would only be marginally different than standing in front of a Mac truck moving over 100MPH. Radical decelleration is the killer. Going from 120 to 0 in a distance of a couple inches is not surviveable. No exceptions. The structure of our guts can not take it. I'd bet the aorta is the weakest king, but quite a few things are gonna be torn and ripped and burst from that kind of fast stop. If you were lying flat on a platform, and the platform was falling at 120MPH, and stopped with the same decelleration rate as a human hitting a fixed object, the result would be the same. There are several cases of people surviving due to at least slightly cushioned landings (or properly stated - lower decelleration rates); with a few of the best known listed here already. The key is that their decelleration was spread out over time, with just a few precious extra milliseconds being enough. They all had their falls slowed or broken by deep snow, tree branches, water, partial deployment, etc. Best bet would be water, as evidenced by the fact that several people (pretty sure it is over a dozen) have hit the water beneath the Golden Gate and survived. That is enough height to be at, or very close, to terminal velocity. Not a good bet to be sure, but the best there is at terminal. So if you find yourself in freefall without any chance of deployment saving your life, aim for the deep end of a pool. Feet first and flat to the surface & arms in tight. Total decellaration in about 10 feet; very surviveable, and hope that if you get knocked unconcious someone gets there to fish you out before you drown." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ps5601 0 #52 January 21, 2008 Forget water, it has 10 times the density of air and is virtually uncompressible. Hitting water at 120mph is as good as hitting concrete. True a few people have survived big falls into water, however in the cases I know of it appears that something has hit the water just prior to the person (ie construction worker falls off bridge and tools or scaffolding falls with them). The object to hit the water before them has broken the surface tension of the water and introduced air bubble reducing the local density of the water. Therefore, if you are going in over water, remember to throw your alti/helmet/camera/handles into the water a split second before you hit to give you a chance. Also remember to keep you left hand higher to reduce the damage to your wrist - that way we may be able to salvage you watch. Blue skies Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #53 January 21, 2008 QuoteAlso remember to keep you left hand higher to reduce the damage to your wrist - that way we may be able to salvage you watch. can i keep this as my sig-line?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #54 January 21, 2008 Quote Quote On the other hand, I've seen bounces who exploded into pieces on impact and others that hardly seemed damaged at all ... but they were dead. The worst ones are the ones that are still trying to move and (sometimes only trying to) talk, but they're going to be dead anyway, whether an ambulance gets there or not. just the context of this gives me the 'goosebumps', never meant 'relaxed' in that sort of way;) Ah, understood.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #55 January 21, 2008 Quote Therefore, if you are going in over water, remember to throw your alti/helmet/camera/handles into the water a split second before you hit to give you a chance. That really made me chuckle I just had this vision of someone in freefall over water, first chucking their helmet, then cursing because it went up instead of down Then they tried their camera, ooopps to late, damn Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #56 January 21, 2008 Quote Quote Therefore, if you are going in over water, remember to throw your alti/helmet/camera/handles into the water a split second before you hit to give you a chance. That really made me chuckle I just had this vision of someone in freefall over water, first chucking their helmet, then cursing because it went up instead of down Then they tried their camera, ooopps to late, damn Yeah but, by you hitting first and breaking the water tension...the helmet should be okay! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #57 January 21, 2008 QuoteForget water, it has 10 times the density of air and is virtually uncompressible. Hitting water at 120mph is as good as hitting concrete. Not sure exactly what is meant by " . . . as good as hitting concrete." I guarantee that at 120MPH a person will not penetrate concrete much at all. They will penetrate water, despite the surface tension. You would not want to belly flop; not enough pressure given the area. But feet first easily breaks the surface and allows deep enough penetration and a surviveable rate of decelleration. I know you did not use the exact words, but it drives me nuts whenever I hear someone say (in true urban legend authoritative tone) "At that speed water is just like concrete." They rarely specify what "that speed" is, but assuming a terminal velocity of 120 MPH, and the impacting object is a human, it is absolutely false that water is just like concrete (unless the water is in a solid state). It's all about decelleration, and unless you think a person travelling at 120 MPH and entering water feet first is going to "bounce" off the water's surface, then you can't possibly believe it's the same as concrete. If you are focusing on compressability, I'd agree to a much higher degree. But it's about displacing the water, not compressing it." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #58 January 21, 2008 Quote it drives me nuts whenever Someone takes a post literally when its clearly a joke. And a fucking funny one too. 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #59 January 21, 2008 Quote Quote it drives me nuts whenever Someone takes a post literally when its clearly a joke. And a fucking funny one too. My response was to the statement that hitting water at 120 MPH is as good as hitting concrete. Didn't read that as intended to be a joke, and have heard people use that, or similar variations on it, with no joking intended. Agreed, for anyone that didn't fail Physics 101, that is a joke. But I bet you could convince most of the public that the "just like concrete" lines are valid. I think a lot of people hear a couple statements about the surface tension of water, and it causes them to then believe an exxagerated and out-of-context phrase like "water is just like concrete." Maybe you thought I was responding to the line about holding one hand up. I did get that one as intended to be humorous. It was humorous, right?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #60 January 21, 2008 I know what this topic needs; a Mythbusters episode. They might have trouble getting permission to use a high bridge; but it should not be too difficult to create 100+ MPH water impacts in their facility." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #61 January 21, 2008 Mythbusters did the "tool in the water right before the person hits" and found it didn't appear to work. Keep trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #62 January 21, 2008 Quote Mythbusters did the "tool in the water right before the person hits" and found it didn't appear to work. Keep trying. Yeah but they also did the 'construction worked flyin' a sheet of plywood' and 'busted' that one...some guy landed one a couple weeks back and lived! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #63 January 21, 2008 No shit? Wow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #64 January 21, 2008 This is an odd discussion. People who have seen an impact with speed greater than 100mph are saying that it is not survivable. And there are people proposing all kinds of theories. At a dropzone, on a hard surface - not water, not 14ft of snow, not a spinning two-out to slow you down. Not one usable organ, a mass of broken bones. For some reason, people want to come up with a hope in advance. It makes them feel safer. Planning, knowledge, gear checks, safety seminars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #65 January 21, 2008 QuoteMythbusters did the "tool in the water right before the person hits" and found it didn't appear to work. Keep trying. I missed that one. And explain "didn't appear to work." Was their finding that people can not survive a 120 MPH impact into water? If so I'm wondering what they had to say about the fact that so many people have landed in the water at terminal and lived." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #66 January 21, 2008 Quote Quote Mythbusters did the "tool in the water right before the person hits" and found it didn't appear to work. Keep trying. Yeah but they also did the 'construction worked flyin' a sheet of plywood' and 'busted' that one...some guy landed one a couple weeks back and lived! Not to mention the one where they fired bullets into water. Obviously, they did not bounce, but penetrated to varying depths depending on composition, speed, angle, etc. Which just goes to prove that there are too many factors involved for a blanket phrase such as "just like concrete at that speed" to be valid. I wonder if the plywood pilot was a skydiver?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #67 January 21, 2008 QuoteThis is an odd discussion. People who have seen an impact with speed greater than 100mph are saying that it is not survivable. And there are people proposing all kinds of theories. At a dropzone, on a hard surface - not water, not 14ft of snow, not a spinning two-out to slow you down. Not one usable organ, a mass of broken bones. For some reason, people want to come up with a hope in advance. It makes them feel safer. Planning, knowledge, gear checks, safety seminars. http://digg.com/educational/how_to_survive_a_500_foot_fall/all Dunno about the 124 mph thing though... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #68 January 21, 2008 Then there is the "extreme sports" link which introduces its skydiving section as follows: "Skydiving is an experience unlike any other. Flying through the air, a parachute the only thing keeping you between elegantly gliding through the stratosphere and a brown smudge on the ground." HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #69 January 21, 2008 yea, and a bullet is seldomly made of flesh and bones..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #70 January 22, 2008 Quote http://digg.com/educational/how_to_survive_a_500_foot_fall/all Dunno about the 124 mph thing though... Newsweek QuoteMoreno and his brother Edgar, 30, both worked for City Wide Cleaners. They were getting ready to wash windows on Dec. 7, 2007, when the cables for the scaffolding snapped. Neither wore a safety harness. Edgar died instantly when he fell off the platform and a fence severed his body. But Moreno managed to grab ahold of the 16-foot scaffolding platform--which proved crucial to his fate. Following the training provided by his company, Moreno held fast to the platform--which increased the air drag on his falling body. And when Moreno hit the ground, the 1,250-pound scaffolding absorbed some of the shock of the 5.5-second fall, which could have reached a terminal velocity of 124mph. The other guy, in this situation with him, was cut in half, so there were other factors. The scaffolding dragged on the side of the building, there was wind drag, and he landed on the scaffolding which absorbed some shock. He also landed on a pile of cables that probably gave more than the concrete. QuoteIf the platform Moreno clung to hit something on the way--like the side of the building--its momentum could have slowed. In effect, Moreno would have experienced several discrete falls rather than one single fall. QuoteHe broke both legs and his right arm. In all, he broke 10 bones. Feet first? QuoteExperts who study falls say that the best way to land is feet first with the balls of the feet hitting first. But that's never a guarantee. Marin County Coroner Ken Holmes recalls several feet-first landings that violently jammed the hip bones into the chest cavity and destroyed internal organs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #71 January 22, 2008 Quote I missed that one. And explain "didn't appear to work." Was their finding that people can not survive a 120 MPH impact into water? If so I'm wondering what they had to say about the fact that so many people have landed in the water at terminal and lived. I half watched the show while reading the paper. I believe they had gmeters on their dummy and interpreted the readings to decide fatal vs. nonfatal. Where have you found the so many people that have landed in the water at 120 mph and lived? Remember, it takes about 1000 feet to reach terminal. A couple of hundred feet don't do it. That would be about 75 mph, discounting any wind resistance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #72 January 22, 2008 Golden Gate Bridge QuoteThere have been more than 1,200 suicides at the Golden Gate Bridge since it opened in 1937, among the most of any location in the world. There is virtually no barrier to someone who is determined to jump -- only a 4-foot safety railing. The jump is the equivalent of a 4-second, 25-story fall, and although some have survived it, a body is usually shattered when it strikes the water at 75 miles per hour. Whether to build a "suicide barrier" has been a political hot button in San Francisco for decades. An official suicide count was kept, sorted according to which of the bridge's 128 lamp posts the jumper was nearest to when he or she jumped. The count exceeded 1,200 when the count ended in 2005, and new suicides were averaging one every two weeks. Currently, it is said that a person jumps off the Golden Gate Bridge every 15 days. As of 2006, only 26 people are known to have survived the jump. Those who do survive strike the water feet-first, usually suffering broken bones and other internal injuries. Landing feet first at 75mph on dry land isn't going to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hausse 0 #73 January 22, 2008 Here what I remember about the mythbusters when they did the water thing. They had a crane with a rope into the water and they linked buster to the cable to get a nice drop. Since it was a crane I would seriously doubt that terminal was reached. They just dropped him (with different things hitting the surface first) and then checked the g-meters. Result was that most of the time buster disintegrated (lost limbs) and that the g-meters claimed him to be dead. So I would say from terminal there is pretty much no way to survive it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #74 January 22, 2008 Quote If so I'm wondering what they had to say about the fact that so many people have landed in the water at terminal and lived. So... have we convinced you otherwise yet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medic0079 0 #75 January 24, 2008 QuoteNobody hits the ground at terminal and lives. Think about it; it would only be marginally different than standing in front of a Mac truck moving over 100MPH. Nope seen that wasnt anything left guys head split in half face was ripped off the skull, and you could make out some parts of his body finger here, part of a jawbone with teeth still in it there, wasnt much left... that was only at 70mph Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
