Reasonable age to jump solo

[MikeStafford 0]

normiss

He's factually challenged, don't confuse him.

Actually I base my statements on pure fact (or pure BS, whichever seems appropriate).
Statistics is a confusing thing. If you choose your numbers carefully you can seem to prove anything. My point is that if you choose your sample to be the jumps made since tandem developed and compare to comparable data for static line skydiving, you will see that the rate for static line deaths is less than tandem. Most studies include military static line jumps, which should not be included since they are low exit altitude jumps with different emergency procedures because of that. Their inclusion skews the results.

Along the same lines: experienced jumpers are statistucally far more likely to be killed than are newcomers. Why? They kill themselves because they choose to fly parachutes which offer no forgiveness for dumb mistakes. The original ram air parachutes raised the safety level. Today's parachutes have lowered it. They may be more fun but they are also more dangerous. The fality reports show that.

[normiss 806]

So you're also ChrisD?

[labrys 0]

Quote

So you're also ChrisD?

Hah! I had the same thought

Owned by Remi #?

[skydivecat 3]

Read my mind.

[peek 21]

normiss

So you're also ChrisD?

Seems likely to me...

[MikeStafford 0]

peek

***So you're also ChrisD?

Seems likely to me...

You guys are always picking on the newbies. I just stick to the facts and don't get personal. I don't know who ChrisD is and don't care.

[normiss 806]

Then applies.

[peek 21]

MikeStafford

You guys are always picking on the newbies.

I respect new skydivers a great deal, but it is hard to take someone seriously when they have not filled out their profile. That is one of the local customs on dropzone.com, letting people know who you are.

[MikeStafford 0]

peek

***You guys are always picking on the newbies.

I respect new skydivers a great deal, but it is hard to take someone seriously when they have not filled out their profile. That is one of the local customs on dropzone.com, letting people know who you are.

Sorry. I was unaware of the local customs. Now you might want to dispute the facts instead of attacking the messenger.

WHHHHOOOOOSSSSHHH

[normiss 806]

You have clearly missed the point.

Please try to pay attention to the discussion.

I never attacked you in any way.

[MikeStafford 0]

You're starting to sound like ChrisD

[normiss 806]

You're starting to sound like you don't know how to have a discussion.
Reading comprehension is crucial in understanding what people are saying to you.

Good day.

[MikeStafford 0]

normiss

He's factually challenged, don't confuse him.

Or maybe it was this one.

Be a man. Don't try to lie your way out. Just admit to being rude and move on.

[normiss 806]

So, your logic is, I say ChrisD is factually challenged, in reference to you having posted facts, means I attacked you.
Interesting.

Have a good day indeed sir.

[MikeStafford 0]

jclalor

In response to the 16 year old injured in what appears to be her first solo jump, I would think that if you are deemed not to have reached a level of maturity to vote, serve in the military, smoke, drink, serve on a jury, and so on and so forth, you are too young to decide to jump out of an airplane solo.

Let's go back to post 1. Why does society saying you are mature at 18 mean you have a level of maturity? It doesn't. As other posters have said it merely makes you accountable in litigation. And as many have said, 18 is not the age at which people really mature, if they ever do. So worrying about age is just assigning an arbitrary number to something that can't be quantified.
Also including smoking as something that something a mature person does is pretty absurd. Smoking is a sure sign of lack of rational mental skills.

[normiss 806]

ChrisD!

What up yo?

[ChrisD 0]

peek

***You guys are always picking on the newbies.

I respect new skydivers a great deal, but it is hard to take someone seriously when they have not filled out their profile. That is one of the local customs on dropzone.com, letting people know who you are.

In all seriousness, thanks for the heads up
Now if you could get the 1000 or so anonymous others that post about ten times a day and frequently more, to take that advice, I'm all ears.


And while your at it if you could get everyone to walk, talk, and act like yo want them too, that would be a great thing as well????

As far as the topic at hand, I was only referencing that strapped to a tandem gives anyone the opportunity to practice controlling a canopy in a environment where they can get immediate feedback and practice. This is something that you can NOT say about static line operations. Quite frankly the idea or whatever, of whether static line is safer than tandem operations wasn't my point. I would be interested in why someone would say that and how they support their opinions and if I was in fact that interested I would start a new thread, PM them for there opinion, and or make an effort to have that discussion elsewhere. And for this girl, from her perspective, clearly her static line jump wasn't safe! But considering the difficulty it takes and the effort required to actually take someone else's perspective and accept their viewpoint as compared with putting the boots to some one that apparently doesn't play by the majorities rules, well we have all seen and partaken of this cool aid haven't we! Now if we could get back to the topic at hand that would be nice?

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[MikeStafford 0]

normiss

ChrisD!

What up yo?

I'm glad you're back normiss! I thought you lost your sense of humor. Seriously though, would you agree that experienced skydivers are more likely to kill themselves that the new guy on the block? Why do we choose to become a banquet for worms?

______________________________

Wish I were ChrisD

[peek 21]

MikeStafford

Sorry. I was unaware of the local customs. Now you might want to dispute the facts instead of attacking the messenger.

Mike, my apologies for suggesting that you are Chris Donovan. Yep, we made an assumption. I see that you have filled out your profile. Thank you!

To tell you the truth, I have not cared to comment on the content in any of the posts in the thread. It is just that Mr. Donovan has been such a challenge to deal with lately that I thought that we should challenge him back, thinking that you were him.

If you get a chance to read up on some of his posts you will see why some of us have gotten a little sensitive to his posts.

[MikeStafford 0]

ChrisD

******You guys are always picking on the newbies.

I respect new skydivers a great deal, but it is hard to take someone seriously when they have not filled out their profile. That is one of the local customs on dropzone.com, letting people know who you are.

In all seriousness, thanks for the heads up

Now if you could get the 1000 or so anonymous others that post about ten times a day and frequently more, to take that advice, I'm all ears.


And while your at it if you could get everyone to walk, talk, and act like yo want them too, that would be a great thing as well????

As far as the topic at hand, I was only referencing that strapped to a tandem gives anyone the opportunity to practice controlling a canopy in a environment where they can get immediate feedback and practice. This is something that you can NOT say about static line operations. Quite frankly the idea or whatever, of whether static line is safer than tandem operations wasn't my point. I would be interested in why someone would say that and how they support their opinions and if I was in fact that interested I would start a new thread, PM them for there opinion, and or make an effort to have that discussion elsewhere. And for this girl, from her perspective, clearly her static line jump wasn't safe! But considering the difficulty it takes and the effort required to actually take someone else's perspective and accept their viewpoint as compared with putting the boots to some one that apparently doesn't play by the majorities rules, well we have all seen and partaken of this cool aid haven't we! Now if we could get back to the topic at hand that would be nice?

C


Wow! You da man ChrisD! I like your way of succinctly capturing the essence of the topic and not confusing things with a jumble of references to other topics. Looks like normiss was complementing me when he accused me of being you.

[MikeStafford 0]

peek

***Sorry. I was unaware of the local customs. Now you might want to dispute the facts instead of attacking the messenger.

Mike, my apologies for suggesting that you are Chris Donovan. Yep, we made an assumption. I see that you have filled out your profile. Thank you!

To tell you the truth, I have not cared to comment on the content in any of the posts in the thread. It is just that Mr. Donovan has been such a challenge to deal with lately that I thought that we should challenge him back, thinking that you were him.

If you get a chance to read up on some of his posts you will see why some of us have gotten a little sensitive to his posts.

peek:

No problem. I usually post BS but if you read between the lines (and maybe to the left of the monitor) you will see some point to it, if very little. I do not agree with the saying that there are no stupid questions. Most of the posts here consist of stupid questions. I just point it out frankly and maybe too bruskly. Despite what some people think, skydivers are not more intelligent than others. There are alot of buckets of rocks jumping out of airplanes. But I see that ChrisD is a real person and heshe is interseting, although hard to follow.

[jclalor 12]

MikeStafford

***In response to the 16 year old injured in what appears to be her first solo jump, I would think that if you are deemed not to have reached a level of maturity to vote, serve in the military, smoke, drink, serve on a jury, and so on and so forth, you are too young to decide to jump out of an airplane solo.

Let's go back to post 1. Why does society saying you are mature at 18 mean you have a level of maturity? It doesn't. As other posters have said it merely makes you accountable in litigation. And as many have said, 18 is not the age at which people really mature, if they ever do. So worrying about age is just assigning an arbitrary number to something that can't be quantified.
Also including smoking as something that something a mature person does is pretty absurd. Smoking is a sure sign of lack of rational mental skills.

It would be nice if society could just trust a person's claim that their level of maturity was sufficient for various activities. However, we
have had to set a seemingly arbitrary age limit for certain activities, I believe this is more rational than taking a child's word that their sufficiently mature enough to engage in various activities.

Even though both child and parent may think it's not a problem for the child to ride in the back of a pickup truck while going down the highway, the "Nanny state" has decided that the child is not capable of making such a decision. I agree with this.

I never said that smoking was a mature choice, the fact is there has to be an age where a person is allowed to make all the good and bad choices that they want. Again, it's impossible to judge emotional maturity on a case by case basis, going by chronological maturity, while far from perfect, is the only logical way it can be done.

As I'm sure with most other jumpers, my friends, family, and coworkers love to ask me for an explanation of the latest publicized skydiving accident. In the last week, I have had several people ask me if you can really skydive at 16, and how did this accident happen. I think there's a world of difference to most people hearing about a skydiving accident involving an "adult" as opposed to one involving a "child". I really think the publicity does not (rightly or wrongly) shed a good light on our sport.

As some people have talked about the pitfalls of a "nanny state" the same could be said about the "I want it now" society, I think waiting 2 years is not a big deal.

[Andy9o8 2]

You sound like Mike Stafford.

[pchapman 279]

jclalor

I think there's a world of difference to most people hearing about a skydiving accident involving an "adult" as opposed to one involving a "child". I really think the publicity does not (rightly or wrongly) shed a good light on our sport.

It doesn't take long to find quotes such as the one below, from the US Consumer Products Safety Commission in 2010:

Quote

In 2006, the most recent year where reporting is considered complete, 142 (17 percent) of the
reported 833 ATV-related fatalities were children younger than 16 years of age.

Those whuffos who-over focus on a single "child" dying [correction: of course I meant:] getting badly injured in skydiving could be reminded of things like this.

(Of course, 142 dead kids says nothing about participant fatality rates, nor addresses whether the activity is considered 'necessary' or 'unnecessary'. Society always accepts more carnage for things deemed normal to do, like driving in cars. To what degree the ATV use was 'just' recreational, vs. useful and normal backwoods & farm transportation, I don't know.)

[MikeStafford 0]

Andy9o8

You sound like Mike Stafford.

Fucking beautiful! I almost didn't get it.