hjumper33 0 #26 January 11, 2008 Quote Quote from what I hear it's pretty cheap to run And jump tickets are $13 right? Ed Ouch, ed and his low blows. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #27 January 11, 2008 Is Sean involved with this? If you want to be successful may I suggest you make it a full blown event or it will be tough to pay for anything other than a 182. Just curious about this, and interested to see what the layout would be like? you setting up in the same location, which I would not suggest? Still have my Sturgis tattoo, my burn on my leg form the Bike I rentedJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #28 January 11, 2008 The PAC's stock straddle (bobsled style) benches are way more comfortable - for tandems - than most of the benches installed in Twin Otters. Straddle benches are so comfortable that we installed them in both of our King Airs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #29 January 11, 2008 Quote... it's fast, it turns a lot of loads quickly, and it's one of the least expensive turbines to run. For me, the financing of running it balances out all the negatives, ... Sure, for the Owner/Operator, it is a great plane. For the jumper ...not so much. The positives are all factors that put more $ in the operator's pocket. The negatives are all factors that the jumpers have to live with at probably the same jump price as an Otter. Kevin Keenan_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #30 January 11, 2008 I don't like them much at all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #31 January 11, 2008 I rode the Pac many times at Deland. Absolutely loved it. I didn't find it too uncomfortable or slow at all. Of course I started jumping out of cessna 182's so it's all a matter of perspective. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #32 January 11, 2008 Quote Quote ... it's fast, it turns a lot of loads quickly, and it's one of the least expensive turbines to run. For me, the financing of running it balances out all the negatives, ... Sure, for the Owner/Operator, it is a great plane. For the jumper ...not so much. The positives are all factors that put more $ in the operator's pocket. The negatives are all factors that the jumpers have to live with at probably the same jump price as an Otter. Kevin Keenan The negatives like it will often go up with a minimum of 4 to 6 fun jumpers instead of 10 to 12 like a Twin Otter? How about the negatives like it's faster climb time? How about the fact the DZO will be able to operate more loads without tandems? Or the DZO will have more dollars for facility improvement and upkeep, student gear, instructor pay, ability to offer slots to organizers or team rates? Yeah, having a more efficient airplane sure sucks for fun jumpers.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #33 January 11, 2008 Quote Quote Quote ... it's fast, it turns a lot of loads quickly, and it's one of the least expensive turbines to run. For me, the financing of running it balances out all the negatives, ... Sure, for the Owner/Operator, it is a great plane. For the jumper ...not so much. The positives are all factors that put more $ in the operator's pocket. The negatives are all factors that the jumpers have to live with at probably the same jump price as an Otter. Kevin Keenan The negatives like it will often go up with a minimum of 4 to 6 fun jumpers instead of 10 to 12 like a Twin Otter? How about the negatives like it's faster climb time? How about the fact the DZO will be able to operate more loads without tandems? Or the DZO will have more dollars for facility improvement and upkeep, student gear, instructor pay, ability to offer slots to organizers or team rates? Yeah, having a more efficient airplane sure sucks for fun jumpers. and this is why i adore you JP...simple straight sarcastic and to the fact all while telling you why you will like it truthfully I remember someone bitchign abotu getting a brand spanking new pac on a dropzone I used to jump at... I looked at my friend and said yes it is terrible that we got a brand spanking new airplane that climbs super fast and allows us to go on lighter loads terrible Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #34 January 12, 2008 Exactly! It smokes most Otters to altitude, and is efficient enough to go up with very light loads :-) I've been in Pac's with 3-4 people which had a turn time ground to ground in less than 10 minutes. Had to get used to being ready to go when I got on the plane! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #35 January 12, 2008 QuoteI remember someone bitchign abotu getting a brand spanking new pac on a dropzone I used to jump at.. Skydivers are people. Many people are stupid. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #36 January 12, 2008 QuoteFor the jumper ...not so much. To a large degree, what's good for the operator is good for the jumper. 5 skydivers with an Otter are very unhappy. but those 5 skydivers with a Pac are having a whole lot of fun. Economics affect us all. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #37 January 13, 2008 Quote Quote For the jumper ...not so much. To a large degree, what's good for the operator is good for the jumper. 5 skydivers with an Otter are very unhappy. but those 5 skydivers with a Pac are having a whole lot of fun. Economics affect us all. _Am I was in an Otter with only 5 people....but it was a hop n' pop and some Russian dude paid for the other slots. Didn't bother me though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #38 January 13, 2008 QuoteSure, for the Owner/Operator, it is a great plane. For the jumper ...not so much. The positives are all factors that put more $ in the operator's pocket. The negatives are all factors that the jumpers have to live with at probably the same jump price as an Otter. See, I just don't understand a lot of this. I plenty of jumps from both the Pac and Otters, and honestly the differences are negligible. I guess I just don't get it when I hear a lot of complaints about various turbine aircraft. Maybe it's because in this part of the midwest, where we are 8+ hours away from a turbine in any direction. The existence of the PAC in the first place has done wonders... Our club can afford to bring a PAC down for a week, whereas we would not be able to afford to do so with any other turbine aircraft minus the Caravan.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #39 January 13, 2008 The bitch seems to be that it's not an Otter. At least based on what I've heard on DZ.com, put any jump plane other than an Otter up and chances are that regardless of its other virtues, it will be judged to be lacking in a poll if the alternative is an Otter. My personal opinion is all other things being equal ... I'll take an Otter. But all things are seldom equal, and that Otter's not always going to be available for me where I am at that day at the right price. So I'll take the plane that'll get me to altitude that day safely. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #40 January 13, 2008 QuoteSee, I just don't understand a lot of this. I plenty of jumps from both the Pac and Otters, and honestly the differences are negligible. I guess I just don't get it when I hear a lot of complaints about various turbine aircraft. You're right, it's retarded. The fact that we can get into any AC thats $750,000 and up for $20-ish per person is a miracle. Many people work a lifetime and don't make $750,000. Right now, that only gets a run out Otter with the -20's on it. Anything with -27's and up is over $1 million. Like I said, it's a miracle, and I'm not going to complain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divegoddess 0 #41 January 14, 2008 fastest time in our PAC light load... under 10 minutes! I love that plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #42 January 20, 2008 Quote fastest time in our PAC light load... under 10 minutes! I love that plane. I'm not trying to be a Prophet of Doom, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that as Fuel Prices increase and larger Dropzones Sway under the weight of the 2 engines with the Otters, We'll probably start seeing more single turbines for the large, resort dropzones. To me, it's common sense. Cessna Is still pumping out a Caravan ever 16-18 Hours in Wichita, and many of the first generation 208's are becoming more affordable. Once again, I can't even begin to imagine complaining about the PAC when every weekend I play with a 182. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllisonH 0 #43 January 20, 2008 I certainly wouldn't complain about having to jump out of a PAC (or caravan, King Air, 182, helicopter, etc.), but if I had a choice I'd pick an Otter. What this translates into for me: I'm perfectly happy jumping the Caravan or 182 at my home dropzone, I love it there, and it will be home as long as I live nearby, BUT if I walk up to manifest at Eloy and they say Skyvan in 20 minutes or Otter in 30, 9 times out of 10 I'll wait the extra 10 minutes for the Otter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #44 January 20, 2008 Quote I certainly wouldn't complain about having to jump out of a PAC (or caravan, King Air, 182, helicopter, etc.), but if I had a choice I'd pick an Otter. What this translates into for me: I'm perfectly happy jumping the Caravan or 182 at my home dropzone, I love it there, and it will be home as long as I live nearby, BUT if I walk up to manifest at Eloy and they say Skyvan in 20 minutes or Otter in 30, 9 times out of 10 I'll wait the extra 10 minutes for the Otter. Between the Van and Otter - it all just depends on the mood I'm in. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #45 January 21, 2008 we have a PAC at our dropzone. and we'll get a second for our boogie! havent jumped that many planes yet, but between a porter and a pac, i'd go for the pac anytime.. love it!!!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
