outside tandem video VS handicam

[tsalnukt 1]

Besides the obvious $$ advantage, what do people think?
IMO Nothing beats a good outside vdeo. There are a lot more shots that you can't get with handicam and I think that the tandems have a better experience when they get to see someone flying out there with them. OTOH with a handicam vid you get all the canopy stuff.

Tandem vids are a primary form of advertising for most
DZ's. Shouldn't they use a better video when it is possible? (i.e. bigger plane mare staff)

What does everyone else think?

[BIGUN 1,421]

It's been covered with an equal amount of pros & cons for both. Like most things in skydiving, it becomes a matter of preference.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_type=AND&search_string=video+or+handicam

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[AKCrash 0]

I just came across this video..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQQjoBEyOYo&feature=related

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" Franklin

[CSpenceFLY 1]

If used to fill the nitch when needed at a Cessna DZ or when a video person is not available I see no problem with it. Unfortunately the DZOs see it as a way to reduce staff and increase profit. IMO there is no way for handycam quality to compete in quality with a professional outside video, although with some of the videos I have seen lately sometimes the person would be better off without either.

[DougH 270]

I am a huge fan of the product when it combines both outside video, and handycam for the canopy and the added angle.

Of course that comes with extra cost for the customer, and extra work for the person doing the editing but I have seen it come out awesome.

Having the canopy ride and their inititial reaction really adds a lot to the video!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[CSpenceFLY 1]

When i shot video I always tried to get some of my canopy time and my landing to add to the video.

[riggerrob 643]

I would much rather hand-video all my own tandems than work with some of those bungling, idiot, amateur, outside-videographers.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

There are many that should not be allowed to jump with tandems

[DougH 270]

Why can't you train one that you are comfortable with, after all you are a teacher!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[billvon 3,073]

Each DZO/CI/TM has to decide if the negative impact on safety is worth the additional money. Personally, I don't think it is.

[popsjumper 2]

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I am a huge fan of the product when it combines both outside video, and handycam for the canopy and the added angle.

Of course that comes with extra cost for the customer, and extra work for the person doing the editing but I have seen it come out awesome.

Having the canopy ride and their inititial reaction really adds a lot to the video!

I vote for this idea...a combination of the two. Extra work, yes...better show? EMPHATIC YES!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[redlegphi 0]

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Each DZO/CI/TM has to decide if the negative impact on safety is worth the additional money. Personally, I don't think it is.

Which method are you saying has more of a negative impact on safety: handicams because of potential snags on opening or a camera flier because of potential collision?

[popsjumper 2]

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When i shot video I always tried to get some of my canopy time and my landing to add to the video.

Canopy time means the passenger/student under the tandem canopy using the handicam. Not the videographer's flight.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tsalnukt 1]

It seems like every schmuck with a video camera thinks that they can shoot a tandem video but usually all you get is the top of the passengers head with an occasioal face shot...only b/c they are holding on to them. I wonder sometimes if the DZO's actually ever see the products that are being put out by their staff. I really think the art of filming a tandem has been lost. Too many "wanna-bees" doing mediaocre work and the standard of videos has dropped. Now throw in the handi-cam, a less than mediaocre product, and now $$$ comes before a decent product that a student can take home and show people to get people to come back. Sure...they don't know the difference. It's them jumping out of an airplane, but talk to some of the ones that have gotten a handicam video on their first jump and then get outside video on their second jump and even they will tell you that the handicam sucks and they wish they could have gotten a "real"video the first time.
And YES...somethiing needs to be done about all these dopes flailing all over the sky thinking that they are shooting a good video. they making it hard for us that take a little pride in the products that we put out.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Not in most cases. It is usually a either or situation. You very rarely see both offered. What I put in my videos was a way for them to show their friends what they experienced and was a good product even by todays standards. Alot of what i have seen recent is a step backward from what we were doing 5 yrs ago.

[DSE 5]

If your DZ is a 182 DZ, the customer might not be a choice. Either it's one load per customer with maybe a fun jumper, or it's two tandems on the load with handi-cam. If the customer wants outside video, they might have to wait a few loads, if it is available at all.
Our DZ won't allow handi-cam for a variety of reasons. On the hand of a competent TI, it makes for decent vid IMO, and at the end of the day, the customer/student decides what is good or bad quality. If it "captures the moment" then they're usually happy.
In a perfect world, IMO, the final video product contains shots from both handi-cam and outside. But it's not a perfect world.

[TheCaptain 2]

Wow, that is amazing to me that some DZ have less than great video flyers. The DZ I work at is extremely picky about the quality of the video and hense we have incredible video flyers.
Kirk

[riggerrob 643]

You are fortunate enough to jump at a large, turbine DZ (Mollala, Oregon).
Large DZS generate lots of wannabee vidiots. DZOs only have to hire the best of the litter. Runts need not apply.
There is also the issue of the best videographers migrating towards busier DZs. For example, Mike McGowan could work at any DZ on the planet, but he chooses to work at Eloy, Arizona. Mike's presence sets a high standard for junior vidiots, forcing them to get better or get on down the road.

On the other hand, many single-Cessna DZOs have to hire whoever they can to do video. Sadly, many vidiots at smaller DZs do not know what the minimum standard is for videos at big DZs. Sadly, they get all arrogant about being the best vidiot in town. Being the best vidiot at a small DZ may be good for the ego, but it provides a dis-service to the customer.

In conclusion, the brightest videographers watch videos from a variety of DZs and videographers and adapt their shooting style to conform to the latest fashions.
IOW Plagarism is rampant in the video industry.

[riggerrob 643]

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Each DZO/CI/TM has to decide if the negative impact on safety is worth the additional money. Personally, I don't think it is.

Which method are you saying has more of a negative impact on safety: handicams because of potential snags on opening or a camera flier because of potential collision?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There are risks on both sides of the argument.
Tee!
Hee!

The risk of a hand-mounted camera snagging a deploying canopy is insignificant.
A greater risk is the TI becoming too engrossed with videoing himself and forgetting to pull enough handles.

On the other hand, several outside vidiots have collided with me on exit. The worst kicked his TI - in the ribs - a second after exit!
More than one has flown directly over my drogue. He got fired - not for his sloppy flying - but because he tried to BS me about "camera angles."

[tsalnukt 1]

Same here. We have a IMO very high quality and experienced video staff. If someone comes along that sucks they usually rise to our standards or they don't fly video for us any more.

We don't give people the choice...Outside video or nothing. In a pefect world, both would be best. What I was refering to is when someone goes to a handicam DZ and then goes to an outside video DZ. They are way more impressed with the outside video (that they get form our video flyers) than they are with their handicam video. A lot of them even like that there is some else out there flying around with them.

And yeah, I was watching tandem vids on "poo-tube" and I'm shocked at the products people are paying for. We Have taken a step back from what was being produced 5 years ago. I think it's the factory...get 'em jumped and get 'em out, mentality has really hurt the people that worked so hard to get "freefall videography" to the level that it was.

They are just tandems and they don't know the difference but skydivers do. Why can't people take a little pride in what they do and try to deliver the best product possible. That's what's gonna get people to come back and bring more friends and put more money in our pockets.

Handicam has it's place where and when it's NEEDED not just b/c it's easier to put a glove on a TM.

[tsalnukt 1]

plagerism is the greatest form of flattery.

It's also the drive to come up with new ideas.

The new wannabees should be watching and studying and trying to figure new stuff out.

The 200 jump wonders that got a camera and think that they can fly video also don't know enough about relative work and flying with other people. Unfortunately that's what happening with this sport. Newbies get some skill and stop learning. They spend tons of money on the tunnel and get good at flying in the fish tank but when it comes to flying in the real world, with real people...they suck. I think it's a lack of education from the very beginning that is being lost in recent years....But that a whole 'nother discussion

[DSE 5]

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plagerism is the greatest form of flattery.

plagiarism is plagiarism. Period. It's a nice word for "theft/stealing/appropriation."

I'm stunned at how many vidiots are willing to defend their footage and their pictures (read Skyride threads for many "They stole my pictures" but use someone else' music in their videos.
Theft is theft, no matter what level of import you assign it.
But that too, is a whole 'nother discussion.

[billvon 3,073]

>handicams because of potential snags on opening

Handicams because of potential snags on opening, the "camera factor" during the dive, and additional distractions for the TM during the exit and dive.

An experienced TM with an experienced video person is, overall, safer than using an experienced TM with a handicam.

[tsalnukt 1]

Not exactly what I was talking about. Some of the "witty" things that I say on the videos and some of the diffrent shots I stole or got the idea from someone else's videos. Thats how I try to make a better product. If I see something or hear something that is better than what I'm dong, and works really well...I use it. Then i might change it or improve it or put my "spin" on it. Thats' what I'm talking about.

The music thing has long been debated and will for ever. I have pretty good ties to the "music industry and am fortunate enough to know people from a lot of the bands who's music I use and they are more than happy to let me use it (royalty free) and really could care less. they think it's kind of cool that their tunes get's used for tandem vids. Major lable touring bands. ...like you said that's another topic

[freefalle 0]

I shot video before I got my tandem ratings. One of the last DZs I worked at wanted us to use handicam. I shot a couple of practice videos using one and stopped. I stopped for a few reasons, first, I sucked at shooting handicam video and didnt feel I was going to get good enough with that thing to produce a product I was willing to sell. Secondly, I didn't like flying with that thing on my hand. When I do a tandem, thats what I want to think about, not if Im getting a cool video shot. finally, one day we had two customers, one got outside video, the other "had" to get the handicam video. When it was all said and done, the guy who got the handicam video was upset because his friends video "was so much better than his" I dont want to be the person who disappoints someone with the quality of the product I provide.

As far as the quality of the videos produced over the last few years, if the standard is dropping, that is the fault of the dzo, or the operator of the video concession. Are they not looking at peoples work before they hire them, or do they just not care. Has it come to well, lets hire bill because he's cool and we like him and lets not hire Tony because he's not cool and popular around the dz even though Tony has better skills and is more safe than bill?

If they are not going to hire safe, confident, competent, people who can provide a product that people will enjoy then its there own damn fault for lowering the bar. When I was working shooting video, the first thing I was asked for at every DZ or event I went to was my demo tape for review. If they didn't like my work, I wasn't invited to work at the event or dz. Do DZO's and concession managers not do that anymore?