outside tandem video VS handicam

[davelepka 4]

I hear you about the cropping and photoshopping. I understand that it's a part of photography.

I used to work at a photo shop, and developed my own film from the weekend, and made my own prints.

The reason I shoot the way I do is that I'm no longer interested in anything but freefall work. I don't want to edit or mess around with images on my computer. I want to jump, and take video/pictures.

The challenge for me is to get it right the first time. Some shots are hard to get, so it may take multiple jumps, or even a whole season before I can take what I see in my mind, and make it happen on screen. It all adds up to more jumping, which is why I'm at the DZ in the first place.

If I was shooting a record, or a big way, then by all means I would undershoot to ensure that I got the job done, but usually I have the luxury shooting on my own terms so I do.

In truth, the differences I see from frame to frame are things that most jumpers never even see. Many times people will like the footage I shoot, while I look at it unimpressed with what I did.

For my money, being able to get it right the first time is all part of the quality of an image. It's something I can be proud of.

If I was trying to compete with Mike or Norm in a photo contest, it would take me 20 jumps to come up with something half as good as what they got with one jump, and proper corrections.

But that's the whole point, I'd rather do 20 jumps than one, and rather not spend anytime screwing around in 'post production'.

And really, I think being half as good as those guys is a huge accomplishment.

[speedy 0]

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This is the full frame image, no cropping or editing. If I can't get it right in freefall, then it's just not right period.

Here are a whole bunch of full frame images, no cropping or editing. http://3d4.de. Click on "FOTOS".

I still think I could do better though. Tips and critic will be taken with interest.

Edited to add: If you look at the first photo in the album, it looks like the leg of the pax has gone through the wing of the aircraft Honest, no editing!

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[dragon2 2]

LOL what's with the exits??

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[speedy 0]

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LOL what's with the exits??

Errrr, what do you mean?

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[dragon2 2]

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LOL what's with the exits??

Errrr, what do you mean?

Those exits are sorta 90o out the door then turning to the tail and going head-low a bit. Why not a stable front-facing head-up exit?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[AggieDave 6]

Some TI's prefer to do a kneeling exit out of a side door, having the student sit in the door with their legs/feet handing outside of the plane. Personally I'm not a fan of that exit unless its out of a King Air or similar small door exit.

There's not necessarily anything wrong with the exit, just a different way to do things. Personally I prefer a forward facing or rear facing exit from a Caravan or Otter, but that's just my preference. The kneeling/sitting exit is a great choice for someone that has some sort of physical handicap or gets really "rubbery legged" during the move to the door sequence.

At least that is what it looks like to me by looking at the pictures.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dragon2 2]

Well obviously I'm no TM, but the head-low drogue throwing and the slight turn seem to me to create more potential for trouble than necessary. The only time I see exits like that at my DZ is with a for some reason somewhat difficult passenger.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[AggieDave 6]

Well, yes and no. I wasn't the TI on this jump, so I couldn't tell you what this student was doing. A headlow drogue through isn't a problem, only if you're head low to the relative wind. The drogue doesn't care what position your body is in, it'll just go with the relative wind, so that's what you've got to be concerned about (in regards to the drogue through). Sometimes students make that harder on you, sometimes a botched exit makes that harder on you.

Then again some TI's have a "exit this way and toss the drogue for stability" habit which can get you hurt, killed or worst. What's worst? Getting hurt, then killed, which kills you and your student then having everything captured on video to show how much of a bad instructor you were.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[speedy 0]

Hey Dave,
thanks for explaining things. I am not a TM, only the vidiot, I just photograph whats there.

On none of those jumps was there ever a problem.
I just let the TM's do their job and as a vidiot make sure I do not get in the way.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[davelepka 4]

They look good for the most part.

On the exit shots of the TM wearing an orange top, you're in a bad slot. Anytime you can see the top of the tandem rig, your in the wrong place. The shots where you can see the bright green drouge sticking out of the pouch, that's a good place to be.

My guess on the 'bad' exits is that you were a hair late on your exit, and left the step at the same time the tandem left the door. You know that you need to get off the step before the tandem leaves, so what you need to do is realize that you've missed it, and let them go by you.

You want to get it right, so you try to rush off the step, but once you missed you exit slot, it's gone for good, and you need to hang on, and follow them off. If the TM goes for a quick drouge pull, or anything comes out of the rig at that point, you won't be happy.

Also, two of the deployment shots are bad news. The one with the bag halfway up, and the one where you're above the canopy as it opens. Always be on level or lower then the tandem on opening. If the canopy slams open, you're in a position where you can have a collision.

This happened a year or two ago in the US, and I think the TM was killed. Never ever be above them in any way near pull time.

Otherwise the shots look good.

[speedy 0]

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They look good for the most part.

On the exit shots of the TM wearing an orange top, you're in a bad slot.
Which number is that? The numbers are are the bottom and the current picture is highlighted.

Anytime you can see the top of the tandem rig, your in the wrong place. The shots where you can see the bright green drouge sticking out of the pouch, that's a good place to be.
Your analysis is correct. I am always fighting to be in the right place but not to far away.


My guess on the 'bad' exits is that you were a hair late on your exit, and left the step at the same time the tandem left the door. You know that you need to get off the step before the tandem leaves, so what you need to do is realize that you've missed it, and let them go by you.
Of course, it's always better too early than too late.

You want to get it right, so you try to rush off the step, but once you missed you exit slot, it's gone for good, and you need to hang on, and follow them off. If the TM goes for a quick drouge pull, or anything comes out of the rig at that point, you won't be happy.

Also, two of the deployment shots are bad news. The one with the bag halfway up, and the one where you're above the canopy as it opens. Always be on level or lower then the tandem on opening.
Excellent advice. It scared me a bit as well.
If the canopy slams open, you're in a position where you can have a collision.

This happened a year or two ago in the US, and I think the TM was killed. Never ever be above them in any way near pull time.
You can repeat that again and again. Also I find if you can anticipate the trapdoor effect, you can make sure you are in a better position to get the opening shot. In that picture you mentioned I was in the wrong place also to get the best shot.

Otherwise the shots look good.

Thanks

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[davelepka 4]

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Of course, it's always better too early than too late

Maybe re-word that to say "It's better to leave early or late, just not at the same time".

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Also I find if you can anticipate the trapdoor effect, you can make sure you are in a better position to get the opening shot.

I've always found a good angle for opening shots to be down low and in front, looking up at them. Of course you need to be far enough down to be out of range of the trap door.

When you're in that slot, you put the student in the foreground of the shot, with the canopy opening in the background.

[Kimblair13 0]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e_ICLacGAAQ#

I'd take handcam over that anyday.

[tonyhays 86]

Wow....words can't even describe the poor quality of this video. What's even worse, it made it's way to the 'net. I can't imagine any self respecting vidiot letting that piece of trash leave the dz.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[tonyhays 86]

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Besides the obvious $$ advantage

Mi amigo, that line says it all. That is why the majority of DZ's will eventually go the handcam route. All other reasons mean nothing when compared to the bottom line.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[diablopilot 2]

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[
What's the exchnage rate between US and NZ these days? I'm wondering what $200 US would convert to in NZ. Also, how many DZs are there in NZ? How many in close proximity to each other?

200.00 NZD = 154.50 USD

We had much of this discussion in the photo forum a while back. Because of the time investment and gear investment, I suggested that there is nothing wrong with the vidiot making more on a jump than the TI, if he's spending the time to make great video. To use Walt Appel's words, that went over "like a turd in punchbowl"....
I'd like to see tandem vids that tsalnukt, JP, CSpenseFly, DaveLepka, and others feel are good/benchmark benchmark videos and worth the approx 100.00 or so that folks are paying for video jumps.

Some of my work I've found online:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=RGhfkK4sgY0 Not my best, but I think it's acceptable, customer did a re-edit for YouTube, so that might explain the image quality and choppy-ness of the edit. I don't do the edits at SDSB.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=f1oLWeJLklo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KzY1XFWRbqA

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MVBEbvY2NfA On a last minute video request.

Again, not the cream of the crop of my work, but just a sample of daily videos.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Wow....words can't even describe the poor quality of this video. What's even worse, it made it's way to the 'net. I can't imagine any self respecting vidiot letting that piece of trash leave the dz.

Unfortunately they probably thought it was worth keeping the 30 buck, rather than protect their image.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[speedy 0]

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Wow....words can't even describe the poor quality of this video. What's even worse, it made it's way to the 'net. I can't imagine any self respecting vidiot letting that piece of trash leave the dz.

Unfortunately they probably thought it was worth keeping the 30 buck, rather than protect their image.

You know, sometimes the pax insists on taking the video. On the rare occaisions something has gone wrong I have had a really hard time explaining to the pax, "Here's you money back and no video".

There was one guy who called me and asked for a new copy of his video 4 years later. I dug out the tape and watched one of my first Tandem videos. After sending his new copy I rang him up and told him if he ever jumps again, I will do his next video for free.

These days, if I made a video like that, I would just claim the camera was not switched on and there is nothing on the tape. But for the pax, well it was him, skydiving and he wanted the video.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Like I said, everyone has to start somewhere. I am hoping that is the case and this was not a paid video. Since the owner of that video didn't post it and ask for our critique I am going to keep all of my other comments to myself.

[billvon 3,008]

>I'd take handcam over that anyday.

Although to be fair, if the TM was as unskilled as that video flyer was, the student would be better off staying on the ground no matter what sort of video he got.

[riggerrob 643]

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Some TI's prefer to do a kneeling exit out of a side door, having the student sit in the door with their legs/feet handing outside of the plane. Personally I'm not a fan of that exit unless its out of a King Air or similar small door exit.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Needs to be a much smaller door than a King air for me to consider a kneeling exit.
I just tell them to put their toes on the door sill and crouch down so low that they sit on their heels.

In comparison with Aggie Dave, I stand six feet tall, weigh 190 pounds and take all the big, fat, ugly, stupid students at Pitt Meadows.

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[riggerrob 643]

No one can just start out being good like im sure you guys did.(CSpence, riggerrob, & tsalnukt)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I never claimed that I "started out being good."
Twenty odd years ago I tried jumping with a video camera strapped to my helmet and a VCR strapped to my chest and did not enjoy it.
Fifteen years ago I bought a custom camera helmet and a Lo8 camera and did a few jumps with it, but was too busy as a TI to pursue that very far.
Ten years ago I bought another camera helmet and a Hi8 camera and a fancy suit and gave it another go, but again was too busy doing tandems to get much good.
Then five years ago, I bought a MiniDV camera and sewed together a handy-mount and the whole process "clicked."
After two years of arguing with luddites, I almost quit jumping with any kind of camera. I only did a handful of camera jumps in 2007 and the last one was only because none of the part-time cameramen were available.

In conclusion, the luddites won!