Is your Wingloading within the WNE Chart?

[fundgh 0]

1.25 on a Sabre 150 with 175 jumps. Been on it since Jump number 35. I am approaching the recommended WL for my experience with every jump! Maybe next year I will be legal.

...FUN FOR ALL!

[vt1977 0]

Just over 1.2 with 1,000+ jumps. In fact I have always been way under those limits and have never yet been bored under canopy.

Point to note - those wingloadings are a maximum and there really is nothing at all wrong in having a lower wingloading!
Vicki

[mjosparky 4]

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Just over 1.2 with 1,000+ jumps. In fact I have always been way under those limits and have never yet been bored under canopy.

Point to note - those wingloadings are a maximum and there really is nothing at all wrong in having a lower wingloading!
Vicki

What a unique concept, wonder if it will ever catch on.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[dragon2 2]

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Just over 1.2 with 1,000+ jumps. In fact I have always been way under those limits and have never yet been bored under canopy.

Point to note - those wingloadings are a maximum and there really is nothing at all wrong in having a lower wingloading!
Vicki

What a unique concept, wonder if it will ever catch on.

Sparky

maybe it's a girls thing

My first canopy put me at 1:1, right now I'm flying a 135 at 1:1,15, after jumping 1:1,25 for a while. Never jumped higher then 1:1,3 so far, a 120 is plenty small for me thank you Wearing lead is the only thing that can make my wingload go up the next couple years, probably. Or I'd have to end up with a PD113R one day (sometimes I borrow rigs)...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dorbie 0]

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I don't think you ever really get "lift" out of a canopy, just a decrease in altittude loss or a planed out glide.

I think my friend who shot up into the air at nearly a 45 degree angle at the end of a botched swoop under his highly loaded Onyx would have to disagree...

Excellent diagram
You don't need a high performance swoop to gain altitude on a canopy either. With enough speed & the right control input you can easily get +ve climb on more docile canopies.

I've had to back off on a flare on my Triathlon 190 because it was starting to climb just as I wanted to be getting lower. Someone who thinks a canopy can't climb needs a brief tutorial on how a canopy flies.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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maybe it's a girls thing

Nope. 1.5

I really think that it's all about what one's perception of fast and boring are. And, no, there is nothing wrong with a light w/l, it is all about your perception of things. If you are having fun, that is what matters!

-A

[billvon 3,058]

>I don't think you ever really get "lift" out of a canopy . . .

If your exit weight is 190 lbs, your canopy generates 190 lbs of lift. If it didn't, you'd end up accelerating faster and faster towards the earth until you hit it (or until you started approaching the speed of light, whichever comes first.) In level flight you're generating exactly your weight worth of lift. (At least the vertical vector of lift.) If you turn or flare, you generate more lift than you weigh momentarily. If you flare and let the brakes up suddenly, you generate less lift than you weigh momentarily. But your canopy really doesn't stop generating lift until it collapses behind you.

[dmbale 0]

Currently 170 jumps, wingloading .78 under a 190 Spectre, field elevation 5,500, density altitude in the summer as high as 9500, but getting ready to downsize to a Spectre 170.

I got into the sport in my 30s, had a broken pelvis (car accident, not skydiving), and took a little longer than most to master my canopy....and yes I can jump in winds (18 steady with gusts of 28 are my personal limits).

[Springbock 0]

I think this chart gives a useful rule of thumbs, but
it really also depends on how you fly your canopy, not just how much wingload you put under it.
One can easily kill hisself within this chart by turning low.
I fly a Stiletto135 on 1.5 with 380 Jumps. I do it conservativly and I don't hook. I feel save and so do the Friends jumping with me.





Ups, is that a white canopy over me???

[mjosparky 4]

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and yes I can jump in winds (18 steady with gusts of 28 are my personal limits).

The question is, can you safely land your 175 sq.ft. Swift, off, DZ in the same winds?

I have spent 20+ years doing tests jumps on various types of canopies and I won't jump a Swift in 28 mph gusts.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Scrumpot 1]

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18 steady with gusts of 28 are my personal limits

That's actually quite a variance and a (high) range tollerance to consider as acceptable for 'gusts', especially if your profile pegs your experience level accurately. All joking aside, I would (personally) seriously reconsider that.

Personally, I'd sure hate to be say @ 50ft AGL under almost ANY canopy when hit by a 10mph variable, let alone a moreover 28mph GUST. And knowing this as 'conditions' prior to actually jumping, are 'conditions' which sits this jumper down. There's always other days. If you're there to see 'em that is.

18mph but GUSTY aint one of 'em at all... to me. Been there, done that!

JMO.
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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I fly a Stiletto135 on 1.5 with 380 Jumps. I do it conservativly and I don't hook. I feel save and so do the Friends jumping with me.

That's cool, and I sincerely hope you are right. The one thing I have been slowly (but surely) coming to the realization of (if not downright coming around to) lately, is that the learning curve apparently CAN be much steeper than it was, even just @10yrs ago when I 1st got into this sport. The other thing I have come around to, via observance however, is that the cost and the price(s) being paid by those that end up mistaken about this, is also much higher than the cost and price paid (in level of injury ...or even fatality) than we did back then.

Can you (in all honesty) do everything that is posted elsewhere (anyone feel like helping me out with a clicky here by chance) under Bill Von's downsizing guideline article? And can you do all of it during less than ideal conditions (ie: landing out ...or in some other potentially added stress scenario)? Because THAT is where the rubber really meets the road. Just something to consider.

1.5 loading on a sub 150 Stilletto at any jump # enters (I think) the "aggressive" range. And if you are not swooping (as you say), then what is the reasoning for you, behind this canopy (and WL) of choice?

Again, not flaming. Legitimately, just wondering.

Although you are correct that you indeed CAN kill yourself under almost any steerable canopy if making a mistake; the cost of a mistake, and circumstances you potentially put yourself under with this profile (WL & canopy type -even regardless of jump #'s), in just my observation and opinion are much more dire. If you are willing to accept those risks (as you self-apparently do), so long as you also fully understand them for yourself (which is what I question), I suppose then, "have at it". I do just hope that IF you are mistaken, the price you pay for learning that, is not higher than you thought in the best of conditions you were in reality, willing to pay.

Like I've said in an earlier post: "been there, done that". ...Got the negative glossy's and hardware to show for it too. So I do not speak from a vacuum either in that regard.

Just additional food for thought, that's all.
Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[crewkeith 0]

hmmmmmmmm 2.1 at 5000 ft elevationwith a 103 velocity. 1.85 on my 120 reserve i think im over a little at 990 jumps




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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[mjosparky 4]

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hmmmmmmmm 2.1 at 5000 ft elevationwith a 103 velocity. 1.85 on my 120 reserve i think im over a little at 990 jumps

.

You are around 50 pounds over what the manufacture says in maximum weight on your reserve. No amount of jumps is going to change that fact. Be sure and tell you family that if it blows up, it wasn't their fault. (The manufacture that is.)

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Scrumpot 1]

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2.1 at 5000 ft elevationwith a 103 velocity. 1.85 on my 120 reserve i think im over a little at 990 jumps

Either this is a troll, or this thread is getting to the point of being just downright RIDICULOUS now! ---YIKES!!

-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[billvon 3,058]

>Either this is a troll . . .

It's probably not; this is becoming more and more of a norm. 2 to 1 by 500 jumps is not uncommon.

[mjosparky 4]

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>Either this is a troll . . .

It's probably not; this is becoming more and more of a norm. 2 to 1 by 500 jumps is not uncommon.

And people dying under good canopies will become more and more the norm. Its really sad and stupid.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ron 10]

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I fly a Stiletto135 on 1.5 with 380 Jumps. I do it conservativly and I don't hook

Can you land it standing in the Peas 8 times out of 10 attempts?

If not then you do not know how to fly that canopy.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 4]

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I think this chart gives a useful rule of thumbs, but
it really also depends on how you fly your canopy, not just how much wingload you put under it.
One can easily kill hisself within this chart by turning low.
I fly a Stiletto135 on 1.5 with 380 Jumps. I do it conservativly and I don't hook. I feel save and so do the Friends jumping with me.


Ups, is that a white canopy over me???

Is it just me, or have we all heard this before?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Scrumpot 1]

Actually, I was more concerned with/alarmed by the fact that it seems he is also over-loading, if not actually exceeding MFR MAX (and TSO?) weight limits on his reserve!

Yeah, I've already recognized, and reconciled (somewhat) myself to the prevalence of rapid (sub-500 jumps) canopy high 1.xx to 2.xx loadings out there. I think you said it best Bill, with one of your replies elsewhere (again I am just terrible at searching and "clickies") when you remarked on the fatality and serious (even "career" ending) injury curve steepening in proprtion to this due to "1st time mistakes" as a result.

Although pain is indeed an excellent teacher, and sometimes, some people's learning abilities are directly related to the intensity of pain experienced; unfortunately that curve has also IMHO recently gotten just too high too.

What good does it do to say you can learn by your mistakes, but you put yourself in a position that where you stack the odds so high against you ever having that real ABILITY??

They (obviously) don't know it now... but at 500 jumps total (thereby also measurably less on that HP high WL one), REGARDLESS, I submit they just don't fully KNOW their canopy! Faster learning curve or not. They just CAN'T!

The "instant gratification", "I want it/got to have it NOW" generation I guess. What really is all the GD fired up HURRY in that regards anyway?

But then, apparently ALSO ignoring and EXCEEDING the MAX LIMIT on their very last chance, their reserve??

Sorry, even the greatest canopy pilot prodigy on the planet, I JUST DON'T GET THAT!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[billvon 3,058]

>Actually, I was more concerned with/alarmed by the fact that it
>seems he is also over-loading, if not actually exceeding MFR MAX
>(and TSO?) weight limits on his reserve!

This is pretty common. Most freeflyers regulary exceed the speed limits on their reserves, yet they have a cypres that they expect will save them if they lose track of altitude. A 170 lb guy with a Raven 150-M reserve is exceeding the weight limits on his reserve. It's common to downsize one's reserve to fit into the tiny container they want since their main is a Crossfire 98. Not necessarily a good idea, but common.

[Conundrum 1]

I'm slightly under my wingloading according to that chart.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm slightly under my wingloading according to that chart.

Don't forget the .2 penalty for < 150. That puts you a nudge over.

[crewkeith 0]

i am not a troll. most threads on here are ridiculous.



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The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[Scrumpot 1]

Thank you Keith, for the response. I seriously was not sure. In this case then maybe you can help me out (and my thinking perhaps then) just a little bit.

Would I be wrong in my assessment (as implied in my post) that you are therefore OVER THE MAX TSO limit for your RESERVE? If I am, please correct me here. If I am not, can you, from your perspective please also enlighten me then as to what further factors, or "off-setting" elements you (must) be considering to justify your choice(s) in that regard?

Just for me, I can not see or fathom any reasoning or satisfactory justification for putting MYSELF (I am not "slamming" you) in that type of (excess risk) scenario. If you think my position/opinion on that is ridiculous, please illustrate for me then as to how?

Aside from just being "personal choice", which I will unequivocally grant; again then, please help me out here. I really would like to hear further then, your honest perspective.

Thank you!
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone