PhreeZone 20 #1 December 6, 2007 http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=16155&z=3&p=Mid-air incident involving RSW plane FORT MYERS: A commercial jet leaving Southwest Florida International Airport was forced to take evasive action Sunday when a skydiving plane got too close. Southwest Airline flight 3660 left RSW at 12:25 p.m., heading for Philadelphia. The FAA says the flight was at 17,000 feet and in Miami airspace when the plane's Traffic Collision Avoidance System went off, warning of the other aircraft nearby. A minute before the alarm went off, the parachute plane was making final preparations for skydiving. The Southwest pilots told Miami they could see the other plane and made a slight turn to avoid it. The FAA says the pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. The agency is investigating the incident.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #2 December 6, 2007 Quotehttp://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=16155&z=3&p=Mid-air incident involving RSW plane FORT MYERS: A commercial jet leaving Southwest Florida International Airport was forced to take evasive action Sunday when a skydiving plane got too close. Southwest Airline flight 3660 left RSW at 12:25 p.m., heading for Philadelphia. The FAA says the flight was at 17,000 feet and in Miami airspace when the plane's Traffic Collision Avoidance System went off, warning of the other aircraft nearby. A minute before the alarm went off, the parachute plane was making final preparations for skydiving. The Southwest pilots told Miami they could see the other plane and made a slight turn to avoid it. The FAA says the pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. The agency is investigating the incident. 17,000ft. That's oxygen country. What was ATC doing?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #3 December 6, 2007 QuoteA commercial jet leaving Southwest Florida International Airport was forced to take evasive action Sunday when a skydiving plane got too close. Or was it "when it got too close to a skydiving plane"? Different ways of describing the incident will affect how blame appears to be apportioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadbug 0 #4 December 6, 2007 How does this make the news?? TCAS RA's and TA's happen many times per day, and although I wouldn't say they are no big deal, they are not newsworthy. The only thing of question is the altitude of the jump plane as the previous poster is correct, that is oxy land, keeping in mind that some jump planes are equipped with oxy and they may have been. The ATC requirements for jump planes are that they are in contact with the radar controlling agency in there airspace prior to jumping. Although it is possible for two planes to be in close proximity and not be talking to the same controller (Philly Crosskeys situation), it is most likely that they are. The skies are crowded folks, sometimes we get too close. Doug, Former jump pilot, Current airline captain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #5 December 6, 2007 deadbug...set top bug! Agree...not newsworthy unless there's an aluminum shower. Wonder if anyone called NASA with their oops report?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #6 December 7, 2007 More aviation bullshit! Last year the news scare was all those poor tired pilots who were going to fall asleep on the job and crash. I have yet to hear of a single instance of that occurence. This year, its all the poor tired air traffic controllers who are going to fall asleep and run airplanes into each other. The last time I went to head to head with an airliner whilst flying a jump plane, the ATC geek I was talking to was wide awake when he turned the 737 right into the jump zone after getting the one minute to jump call. The copilot had blue eyes and the inflight movie was rolling the closing credits. I always wondered what the passengers thought of the skydivers waving at them on their way past.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeepDiver 0 #7 December 7, 2007 SDM's Caravan doesn't have a Traffic Collision Avoidance System. As I read the story Southwest Airline flight 3660 was at 17,000 when a warning bell sounded. Big deal. The Southwest Airline pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. SDMiami is the most stringent DZ I have ever been at. It is a very well run operation... for a tandem factory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeG 0 #8 December 7, 2007 Are you sure that SDMiami was involved? Their dz is at the homestead airport...That´s quite some distance away from where the plan apparantly was, and they are not mentioned in the report. Where did you get that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #9 December 7, 2007 Quote SDM's Caravan doesn't have a Traffic Collision Avoidance System. As I read the story Southwest Airline flight 3660 was at 17,000 when a warning bell sounded. Big deal. The Southwest Airline pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. SDMiami is the most stringent DZ I have ever been at. It is a very well run operation... for a tandem factory. The Southwest pilots told Miami they could see the other plane and made a slight turn to avoid it. The FAA says the pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. The FAA said the pilot never indicated...the pilot made a turn ~ so it was a medium sized deal, if the TCAS bell rang, he's gotta fill out a report and go see the chief pilot. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZeG 0 #10 December 7, 2007 Quote Quote SDM's Caravan doesn't have a Traffic Collision Avoidance System. As I read the story Southwest Airline flight 3660 was at 17,000 when a warning bell sounded. Big deal. The Southwest Airline pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. SDMiami is the most stringent DZ I have ever been at. It is a very well run operation... for a tandem factory. The Southwest pilots told Miami they could see the other plane and made a slight turn to avoid it. The FAA says the pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. The FAA said the pilot never indicated...the pilot made a turn ~ so it was a medium sized deal, if the TCAS bell rang, he's gotta fill out a report and go see the chief pilot. With "told Miami" they probably mean the aircontroller for that area. I kind of doubt it is in reference to the SDMiami dz. Isn´t there another dz closer by? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadbug 0 #11 December 7, 2007 Quote Quote SDM's Caravan doesn't have a Traffic Collision Avoidance System. As I read the story Southwest Airline flight 3660 was at 17,000 when a warning bell sounded. Big deal. The Southwest Airline pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. SDMiami is the most stringent DZ I have ever been at. It is a very well run operation... for a tandem factory. The Southwest pilots told Miami they could see the other plane and made a slight turn to avoid it. The FAA says the pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. The FAA said the pilot never indicated...the pilot made a turn ~ so it was a medium sized deal, if the TCAS bell rang, he's gotta fill out a report and go see the chief pilot. I don't know what the policy is at your airline, but but were not required to fill out jack or talk to anyone at mine. That dosen't mean we can't fill out a ASAP or NASA report if we want to but were not required to. Anything to get you to watch the evening news or buy a paper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #12 December 8, 2007 Its got to be a bogus story and the reporter got it wrong ... it says the airline pilots "looked out the window and saw" the jump plane. Hell, those guys will probably get called into the chief pilot's orifice for a talkin' to about that!Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeepDiver 0 #13 December 8, 2007 QuoteIsn´t there another dz closer by? I do not know what the deal is with this operation? http://www.parachutesovermiami.com/directions.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadbug 0 #14 December 8, 2007 Our dropzone is located about 2 miles south of one of the arrivals to MSP. There is a fix on the arrival called "Twins". The crossing restriction is 11,000ft at Twins. When I used to fly jumpers , and we were running jumprun to the north, we would often be very close to MSP arrival traffic, they would usually see us and we would see them. TCAS RA,s were not uncommon, and I've heard more than one airline crew say they saw the jumpers exit. I still jump at that dropzone, but now I also fly the arrival for NWA. It's fun to point out the jump plane to the rest of the crew. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cdcollura 5 #15 December 9, 2007 Strange ... I jump there frequently. Never have I seen anyone go to 17,000' there. They have either a Caravan (routinely) or Otter (only on special occasions) and the most I EVER went to was 14,500'. Must have been something with equipment, a skydiver-hating pilot wanting to start "something", a hoax, or all of the above?Fly High ... Don't "Get High"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #16 December 9, 2007 QuoteHow does this make the news?? TCAS RA's and TA's happen many times per day, and although I wouldn't say they are no big deal, they are not newsworthy. The only thing of question is the altitude of the jump plane as the previous poster is correct, that is oxy land, keeping in mind that some jump planes are equipped with oxy and they may have been. The ATC requirements for jump planes are that they are in contact with the radar controlling agency in there airspace prior to jumping. Although it is possible for two planes to be in close proximity and not be talking to the same controller (Philly Crosskeys situation), it is most likely that they are. The skies are crowded folks, sometimes we get too close. Doug, Former jump pilot, Current airline captain Hell I had jumpers go off my nose at less than quarter mile and had to make TWO hard evasive turns to avoid a collision. Never made the news. WTF.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yamtx73 0 #17 December 9, 2007 Quote Quote Quote SDM's Caravan doesn't have a Traffic Collision Avoidance System. As I read the story Southwest Airline flight 3660 was at 17,000 when a warning bell sounded. Big deal. The Southwest Airline pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. SDMiami is the most stringent DZ I have ever been at. It is a very well run operation... for a tandem factory. The Southwest pilots told Miami they could see the other plane and made a slight turn to avoid it. The FAA says the pilot never indicated the planes were close to a collision. The FAA said the pilot never indicated...the pilot made a turn ~ so it was a medium sized deal, if the TCAS bell rang, he's gotta fill out a report and go see the chief pilot. With "told Miami" they probably mean the aircontroller for that area. I kind of doubt it is in reference to the SDMiami dz. Isn´t there another dz closer by? If the flight in question departed RSW (Fort Myers) there are 2 dropzones closer. Skydive AirAdventures in Clewiston and Skydive SW Florida in Punta Gorda. SW Florida should have a turbine this time of year, AirAdventures has a turbine. It's highly unlikely that the pilot saw them at 17K, both operations stay below 14,500.The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 4 #18 December 9, 2007 Sounds like a typical media make em scared story. First of all TCAS does not simply "go off" it issues traffic advisories[TA's] and resolution advisories[RA's]. The fact that southwest made a gentle turn tells me it was probably the former. If it was an RA the pilots would have been required to follow the TCAS commands. At 17000' see and avoid rules apply and these pilots did just that. Must have been a slow news day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
