Cut lines?

[chuckakers 425]

A friend just told me he heard that someone (in Texas somewhere, he thinks) had the lines on a canopy intentionally cut. He said it happened at a DZ, but that it was the person's b.a.s.e rig.

Anyone know about this?

Chuck

[lippy 918]

You mean they sabatoged (sp?) somebody's BASE rig?

I got nuthin

[chuckakers 425]

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You mean they sabatoged (sp?) somebody's BASE rig?

That's what I understand.

C

[beowulf 1]

If it's the story I am thinking of it was NOT sabotage as it was done right in front of the owner and the packer. The guy that did it saved the life of the owner that thought it was ok to jump it. I was there and those lines were the most ragged out lines I have ever seen. Nearly all the packers refused to pack that rig. I wouldn't jump that canopy. BTW what I am thinking of was not a BASE rig.

[dannydan 5]

Chuck and Beo.... I think WE all need to hear about this!!! Esp if the TWO stories are not related to each other!!! ASAP peeps please.... : DD

[dragon2 2]

Even if someone thinks it's dangerous they do no have the right to touch the gear. Get a rigger/instructor to ground it or the jumper, sure. But hands off of someone else's property.

I once repaid a friend a favor by attaching and packing a main to his rig. I asked an assistant instructor for help how to pack a pullout and to do a linecheck with me, he asked who attached the main? When I said it was me he said that was dangerous, pulled the cutaway and walked away.

WTF?

If you have a problem with someones gear and they don't listen, go up a step in the chain of command if you want, but HANDS OFF. If they're not a student THEY are responsible not you.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[hackish 8]

If I recall correctly in the US the packers have to be an FAA rigger or supervised by one. If the rig was unsafe then would it not have been proper to call it to the attention of the rigger on duty?

If someone wanted to cut a few of my lines because they felt the lines were badly chafed and too weak then I could see tension testing them about their neck to see if they would stand up to the load.

-Michael

[TonyJ 0]

wouldn't it be better to replace the lines that were badly chafed than to worry about finding someone to tension test them...lines are the cheapest part of the canopy...tony

[PhreeZone 20]

Mains can be packed by the person intending to jump it next also. Technically if there are no packers on the DZ there is no need for a rigger to be there either to watch people pack their own mains.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[lilchief 1]

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I once repaid a friend a favor by attaching and packing a main to his rig. I asked an assistant instructor for help how to pack a pullout and to do a linecheck with me, he asked who attached the main? When I said it was me he said that was dangerous, pulled the cutaway and walked away.

WTF?

This pisses me off! Don't just bark, explain and teach!

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[hackish 8]

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wouldn't it be better to replace the lines that were badly chafed than to worry about finding someone to tension test them...lines are the cheapest part of the canopy...tony

My poor attempt at humour apparently. I'm talking about wrapping the chafed line that the packer cut and tension testing it wrapped around his neck... Isn't that like your mechanic telling you that your tires are worn our and just to make sure slashing them for you?

-Michael

[dragon2 2]

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I once repaid a friend a favor by attaching and packing a main to his rig. I asked an assistant instructor for help how to pack a pullout and to do a linecheck with me, he asked who attached the main? When I said it was me he said that was dangerous, pulled the cutaway and walked away.

WTF?

This pisses me off! Don't just bark, explain and teach!

Yeah well over here it's a debatable item whether you're allowed to change a main or if your rigger has to do it It depends on which DZ, which rigger and which jumper you ask. So I kinda asked the wrong guy, he would've been in his right to say I couldn't, but I was more mad at his cutting away the main (which turned out I had attached 100% ok) and then taking a hike too.

At our DZ I grew up so to speak with people who change mains and risers and stuff around all the time (CRW people mostly, this rig was a CRW rig too) so I didn't and still do not see anything strange or dangerous in it, as long as you ask an experienced jumper to do it with you and not start just pulling lines off links but I've had my fair share of run-ins with people who think different
I did teach some more people how to attach (demo) mains and do linechecks

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[beowulf 1]

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Even if someone thinks it's dangerous they do no have the right to touch the gear. Get a rigger/instructor to ground it or the jumper, sure. But hands off of someone else's property.

I once repaid a friend a favor by attaching and packing a main to his rig. I asked an assistant instructor for help how to pack a pullout and to do a linecheck with me, he asked who attached the main? When I said it was me he said that was dangerous, pulled the cutaway and walked away.

WTF?

If you have a problem with someones gear and they don't listen, go up a step in the chain of command if you want, but HANDS OFF. If they're not a student THEY are responsible not you.

You would have to know the people involved in the incident I was refering to. I saw the lines and he was doing him a favor by cutting the lines. It's not like a total stranger went up and cut his lines. These guys know each other well. I play poker with both every week.

[billvon 2,991]

> If I recall correctly in the US the packers have to be an FAA rigger
>or supervised by one.

This does not apply to BASE rigs. There effectively are no rules on BASE gear.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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? When I said it was me he said that was dangerous, pulled the cutaway and walked away.

The guy sounds like a total dick. Does he suck as an instructor, too? It was a couple of guys like that in the sport that made me get my instructor's rating, just to keep students away from them.

[Couloirman 0]

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Even if someone thinks it's dangerous they do no have the right to touch the gear. Get a rigger/instructor to ground it or the jumper, sure. But hands off of someone else's property.

I once repaid a friend a favor by attaching and packing a main to his rig. I asked an assistant instructor for help how to pack a pullout and to do a linecheck with me, he asked who attached the main? When I said it was me he said that was dangerous, pulled the cutaway and walked away.

WTF?

If you have a problem with someones gear and they don't listen, go up a step in the chain of command if you want, but HANDS OFF. If they're not a student THEY are responsible not you.

This sounds very strange considering the most basic license, A, has a requirement that you must know how to pull the cutaway handle, flex your three ring system to prevent them becoming stiff, and reattaching the main. This is essentially the same thing and the newest of newbies "has" to know how to do this just to get their A. Your profile says you have a decent amount more experience than required to do this, so I just dont see the problem.

[hackish 8]

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> If I recall correctly in the US the packers have to be an FAA rigger
>or supervised by one.

This does not apply to BASE rigs. There effectively are no rules on BASE gear.

Hmm. Good point. I suppose jumping a BASE rig out of a plane doesn't exactly conform to all the BSRs does it? Was he jumping the rig at the DZ or just asking to have it packed?

-Michael

[NWFlyer 2]

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I suppose jumping a BASE rig out of a plane doesn't exactly conform to all the BSRs FARs does it? Was he jumping the rig at the DZ or just asking to have it packed?

Fixed it - it's not the BSRs, it's the law. That said, I'm sure BASE rigs have been jumped out of airplanes before.

Of course, there's no regulation that says that a BASE rig can't be packed at a DZ. There's also no regulation that says a BASE canopy in a TSOed skydiving rig cannot be taken out of an airplane.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[dragon2 2]

Check where I live

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[woodpecker 0]

You only have to know how to accomplish all of that with a USPA A license. In the UK you just need the jump numbers and CH1 to get your A.

You'd be shocked to even know how many people have an A over here in the UK that cant/dont know how to pack their main.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[dragon2 2]

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You only have to know how to accomplish all of that with a USPA A license. Overseas you just need the jump numbers to get your A.

Bull. We have a long list of objectives you need to meet besides just jumpnumbers, that´s various freefall and canopy skills, spotting, gear checks, a written exam and packing. You´re just not allowed to change anything to your gear besides the closing loop and the stowing bands.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[woodpecker 0]

Then let me clarify.....to get a BPA (UK) A license you dont need to know any of that....except canopy handling 1. B lincese starts spotting, gear checks, CH2, and a few other items.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[darkwing 5]

This is an interesting issue. I'm a rigger. Years ago a guy came to me with a reserve to pack. I told him it was not airworthy. I wish I had cut the lines. He packed it himself, used it, it blew up, and he is paralyzed for life. Later his lawyer called me. Fortunately I wasn't one of the people they were suing! I am a big fan of being responsible for yourself, but after being told by two riggers that it was not airworthy, he jumped it anyway, and others still got sued! I suspect the only reason I didn't get sued was that I was a poor student at the time, and the lawyer figured that out.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[hackish 8]

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Fixed it - it's not the BSRs, it's the law. That said, I'm sure BASE rigs have been jumped out of airplanes before.

Of course, there's no regulation that says that a BASE rig can't be packed at a DZ. There's also no regulation that says a BASE canopy in a TSOed skydiving rig cannot be taken out of an airplane.

Oops, you're right. Here in Canada they're BSRs - I keep forgetting all the differences between countries. I don't think we even need TSO'd equipment here...

Base rigs have been jumped from a plane before (not at a DZ). The question I had for them once they landed was "are those things good for a terminal opening?"

As if someone packed his own defective reserve and then tried to sue someone else for it.

-Michael

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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This sounds very strange considering the most basic license, A, has a requirement that you must know how to pull the cutaway handle, flex your three ring system to prevent them becoming stiff, and reattaching the main.

Just to clairify that requirement, yes you need to know how to reattach your main, but that's assuming that the main never came off the risers. Anything involving links coming off of risers or lines coming off of links technically requires a rigger. That said, I have no problem with experienced jumpers doing this on their own gear, and think they should at least know how.

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When I said it was me he said that was dangerous, pulled the cutaway and walked away.

That just sounds like a guy on a powertrip. He was asked for help double-checking a non-rigger's work, and somehow that's dangerous? It only takes 5 minutes to do a continuity check.

To the story about cutting someone's lines, I don't know the specifics of that incident, but sometimes it's the only thing that works. I know someone who got into a heated argument with one of his buddies who was drunk and high and wanted to get on the plane, and refused to take no for an answer. So instead of escalating the situation by running to the pilot, DZO, or S&TA, he finally just reached out and pulled his reserve handle. The guy was PISSED, but at least he didn't jump.

If a person is stubborn/stupid/clueless enough, cutting the lines *might* be the best option.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."