Cut lines?

[hackish 8]

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Just to clairify that requirement, yes you need to know how to reattach your main, but that's assuming that the main never came off the risers. Anything involving links coming off of risers or lines coming off of links technically requires a rigger.

Wow, doesn't the 3 ring manufacturer recommend that you disconnect and flex the webbing once a month? I could be wrong as to where I read it but I was pretty sure about that.

Are you 100% sure that requires a rigger? Here in Frozen Wasteland to the North the 3 ring is not considered part of the certificated parachute so I believe a non-rigger is allowed to do it.

-Michael

[DSE 5]

There in Canada, aren't they called "CARS?
A very brief glance at the CSPA website suggests that Canadian law requires TSO'd gear; perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly.

"BSR's" in the States are recommendations. "FAR's" are the law. I might be incorrect, but it appears that it's much the same in Canada?

[beowulf 1]

Read it closer. He is talking about the lines being detached from the risers. The risers are attached to the harness via the three rings.

[diablopilot 2]

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Anything involving links coming off of risers or lines coming off of links technically requires a rigger.

Not in the US, if it's the jumpers own gear.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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Anything involving links coming off of risers or lines coming off of links technically requires a rigger.

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Not in the US, if it's the jumpers own gear.

This is a question, not an attack: are you sure? If so, what source is that from?

The reason I ask is because I remember when I was studying for the rigger test that I found it absurd that a non-rigger was legally allowed to build his own main, yet was not allowed to remove and hook up his own main from his risers. Maybe my memory is wrong, it's been several years.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[NickDG 23]

The FAA is only concerned with the harness and the reserve. Their juristiction and the TSO standards end at the bottom of the main risers. It's where the saying, "you can jump a bed sheet for a main if you wanted to," comes from . . .

And any non-rigger can assemble a main to the risers, even if it isn't yours, you just can't pack it.

NickD BASE 194

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

hmm... from the written test questions...

In relation to a dual parachute pack used for intentional jumping, which of the following may be accomplished by the person who intends to use the parachute?

A) Packing the main parachute.

B) Packing, maintaining, or altering the main parachute.

C) Packing the main parachute or the auxiliary parachute.

Which of the following repairs can be approved by a certificated senior parachute rigger?

1. Replacing a grommet.

2. Cleaning a stained harness.

3. Replacing suspension lines.

4. Arranging suspension lines in proper sequence on a separable link.

5. Repairing a lateral band.

6. Replacing an apex cap.

A) 2, 3, 5.

B) 1, 2, 4.

C) 5, 4, 6.


The first implies that a non-rigger jumper may pack, but not maintain, his own main. The 2nd states that a rigger is authorized to approve the proper order of lines on links. I interperet this to state that a rigger is required to maintain the main, and that removing from links/risers is considered maintenance of the main. Wording is vague enough that other interperetations are possible, and I'd really have to comb through the rest of the regs to nail it down further.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[Butters 0]

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The reason I ask is because I remember when I was studying for the rigger test that I found it absurd that a non-rigger was legally allowed to build his own main, yet was not allowed to remove and hook up his own main from his risers. Maybe my memory is wrong, it's been several years.

I believe what you are referring to is the statement that a non-rigger is allowed to build their own main but is not allowed to repair their own main. (I believe I read this statement in The Parachute Manual by Dan Poynter.)

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[billvon 2,995]

>Their juristiction and the TSO standards end at the bottom of the main risers.

Technically, a user can pack but not maintain his own main parachute. Also note that per the TSO drawings and the manufacturer's drawings for main parachutes, the main risers are part of the harness/container system, not part of the main parachute. The slinks/links are in that gray area between "part of the harness" and "part of the parachute."

[brettski74 0]

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There in Canada, aren't they called "CARS?
A very brief glance at the CSPA website suggests that Canadian law requires TSO'd gear; perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly.

"BSR's" in the States are recommendations. "FAR's" are the law. I might be incorrect, but it appears that it's much the same in Canada?

That's pretty much right. CARs are law. BSRs are mandatory recommendations of the CSPA which are mandatory for all CSPA members. There are also technical recommendations which are similar to BSRs but may be waived on request, depending on the circumstances.

And yes, the harness/container and the reserve canopy are TSO'd items, but not being a rigger, I couldn't tell you specifics (like what TSO is required).

[brettski74 0]

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Wow, doesn't the 3 ring manufacturer recommend that you disconnect and flex the webbing once a month? I could be wrong as to where I read it but I was pretty sure about that.

Are you 100% sure that requires a rigger? Here in Frozen Wasteland to the North the 3 ring is not considered part of the certificated parachute so I believe a non-rigger is allowed to do it.

You're confusing 3-ring maintenance with something entirely different, as beowulf has already pointed out. Do your 3-ring maintenance like you've been taught. You shouldn't need a rigger to help you with that if you have your A licence.

With regard to attachment and removal of a canopy from the risers, I'm not sure what the requirements are in Canada, although I know that I have seen it done by non-riggers in the past. The people in question were, however, much more experienced packers and skydivers than me. I wouldn't recommend assembling any of the integral components of your rig without an appropriate level of supervision and/or experience.

[diablopilot 2]

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>Their juristiction and the TSO standards end at the bottom of the main risers.

Technically, a user can pack but not maintain his own main parachute. Also note that per the TSO drawings and the manufacturer's drawings for main parachutes, the main risers are part of the harness/container system, not part of the main parachute. The slinks/links are in that gray area between "part of the harness" and "part of the parachute."

And what exactly prevents a non rigger from doing such assembly or maintenance of non TSO'd components?

Nothing. There is no certification. There is no rating. There is no enforcement.

Now if you ARE a rigger, that changes things.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mark 107]

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And what exactly prevents a non rigger from doing such assembly or maintenance of non TSO'd components?

Nothing. There is no certification. There is no rating. There is no enforcement.

FAR 65.111(b) has some limitations. That's the part that starts with "No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual-parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping in connection with civil aircraft of the United States unless that person. . ."

65.111 was changed when tandem systems were incorporated (instead of being allowed under exemption), and the rewrite muddied things up somewhat. The previous version was clearer on "maintain" and "alter" requiring an appropriate rigger certificate. We're stuck the the plain meaning of the current version, which allows a first jump student to alter (= change from original factory configuration) his main parachute.

You may be thinking of FAR 65.125(c), which exempts riggers from complying with regulations on facilities, equipment, currency, and logging when they work on main parachutes. That makes it hard to tell who did what to a main canopy, which is why there has been no enforcement -- the issue has not yet been litigated. Still, 65.125(c) requires riggers to work within the limits of their privileges, and it would be hard to make a persuasive argument that a rigger should be more restricted in his activities than a non-rigger.

Mark

[riggerrob 643]

A very brief glance at the CSPA website suggests that Canadian law requires TSO'd gear; perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

TSOed gear is not mandatory in Canada.
CSPA recommends that gear be built "similar to TSO quality control standards."
... or words to that effect ...

The majority of Canadian skydivers jump TSOed gear sewn in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the European Union or the USA, but only one Canadian manufacturer (Flying High Manufacturing located in Claresholm, Alberta) holds a TSO administered by Transport Canada.
Otherwise, Transport Canada does not care what we jump, as long as we keep the fatality rate low.

[diablopilot 2]

§ 65.111 Certificate required.

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(a) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any personnel-carrying parachute intended for emergency use in connection with civil aircraft of the United States (including the reserve parachute of a dual parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping) unless that person holds an appropriate current certificate and type rating issued under this subpart and complies with §§65.127 through 65.133.

(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual-parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping in connection with civil aircraft of the United States unless that person—

(1) Has an appropriate current certificate issued under this subpart;

(2) Is under the supervision of a current certificated parachute rigger;

(3) Is the person making the next parachute jump with that parachute in accordance with §105.43(a) of this chapter; or

(4) Is the parachutist in command making the next parachute jump with that parachute in a tandem parachute operation conducted under §105.45(b)(1) of this chapter.

(c) Each person who holds a parachute rigger certificate shall present it for inspection upon the request of the Administrator or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, or of any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.

(d) The following parachute rigger certificates are issued under this part:

(1) Senior parachute rigger.

(2) Master parachute rigger.

(e) Sections 65.127 through 65.133 do not apply to parachutes packed, maintained, or altered for the use of the armed forces.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

See the above post.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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See the above post.

A good catch, it would appear the regulation is on your side. Interesting that the written test question and answer I provided (question 44 from http://www.certificationunlimited.com/faaqs.html) directly contradicts the reg you have quoted.

Perhaps the website I have used as a reference is in error. Or perhaps the test is in error.

Either way, Billvon's point that the risers are not part of the main parachute, but rather the harness, and therefore subject to TSO and FAR 65, ect is probably more relevant. Does attaching a main constitute maintenance of the main, or of the harness? hard to say since both are involved. I think I prefer your more liberal interperetation although were it to come up in court somehow it'd be hard to say the outcome.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[mark 107]

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§ 65.111 Certificate required.

top
(a) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any personnel-carrying parachute intended for emergency use in connection with civil aircraft of the United States (including the reserve parachute of a dual parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping) unless that person holds an appropriate current certificate and type rating issued under this subpart and complies with §§65.127 through 65.133.

(b) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any main parachute of a dual-parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping in connection with civil aircraft of the United States unless that person—

(1) Has an appropriate current certificate issued under this subpart;

(2) Is under the supervision of a current certificated parachute rigger;

(3) Is the person making the next parachute jump with that parachute in accordance with §105.43(a) of this chapter; or

(4) Is the parachutist in command making the next parachute jump with that parachute in a tandem parachute operation conducted under §105.45(b)(1) of this chapter.

(c) Each person who holds a parachute rigger certificate shall present it for inspection upon the request of the Administrator or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, or of any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.

(d) The following parachute rigger certificates are issued under this part:

(1) Senior parachute rigger.

(2) Master parachute rigger.

(e) Sections 65.127 through 65.133 do not apply to parachutes packed, maintained, or altered for the use of the armed forces.

65.111 was changed when tandem systems were incorporated (instead of being allowed under exemption), and the rewrite muddied things up somewhat. The previous version was clearer on "maintain" and "alter" requiring an appropriate rigger certificate. We're stuck the the plain meaning of the current version, which allows a first jump student to alter (= change from original factory configuration) his main parachute.

Mark

[billvon 2,995]

>And what exactly prevents a non rigger from doing such assembly or
>maintenance of non TSO'd components?

Nothing. It's not 'legal' per se but it's not enforceable. It's like forging a packing data card; not legal but no way to "catch" it.

>Now if you ARE a rigger, that changes things.

Right. Which effectively leads to tasks (like fixing the main risers) that a non-rigger can do but a rigger can't, going by the letter of the law.

[diablopilot 2]

I don't see anything wrong with the current version. It's a main.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.