What can we do about Skyride?

[chutingstar 1]

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You have won my vote, until now I would have called you a nuetral. Now you have joined the fray! I will instruct all of my students to stay clear of chutingstar rigging services in the future. You simply can't be trusted.

Wow...thanks Jacob. I would advise that you stay away from reading or trusting any the info that comes from the Rigger Rant and Rave at http://www.chutingstar.com/rantandrave.html or any the articles I write for Skydiving Magazine or heck, anything that has my seal on it, TBJ. I do a little too much research and take a little too much pride in delivering educational articles as well as some well-done rigging work.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I am about tired of the attacks directed at Mike Gruwell and Chuting Star Rigging, so let's keep this thread a bit more civil and on track.

If any of you, as individuals or business owners being "scammed", have real grief with the skyride system then I suggest you take action. Conversely, if you are simply interested in joining a wide-ranging witch hunt or jumping on the bandwagon of an issue which does not affect you personally in any way then I suggest you get over it. I, personally, do not like the advertising practices of the ASC/SkyRide conglomerate, but that does not stop me from working at a dropzone which accepts the certificates (as does SlotPerfect). Nor does any of this make me think any less of the people jumping in Cedartown and still working at that dropzone. Targetting Mike because his rigging loft is in that building and because he trains with his four-way team there on occasion just doesn't sit well with me.

Chuck

[AndyMan 7]

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I appreciate the extra work you've given me.Wink Of course it will be deleted.

Way to show your impartiality.

This reflects poorly not only on yourself, but also on your business.

You'd do much better working for change.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[marks 0]

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I am about tired of the attacks directed at Mike Gruwell and Chuting Star Rigging, so let's keep this thread a bit more civil and on track.

DITTO!

just leave chuting starr out of this... im mean what the hell has mike done wrong...

absoloutly nothing, he is NOT the manager of skyride.

[skydived19006 4]

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I am about tired of the attacks directed at Mike Gruwell and Chuting Star Rigging, so let's keep this thread a bit more civil and on track.

If any of you, as individuals or business owners being "scammed", have real grief with the skyride system then I suggest you take action. Conversely, if you are simply interested in joining a wide-ranging witch hunt or jumping on the bandwagon of an issue which does not affect you personally in any way then I suggest you get over it. I, personally, do not like the advertising practices of the ASC/SkyRide conglomerate, but that does not stop me from working at a dropzone which accepts the certificates (as does SlotPerfect). Nor does any of this make me think any less of the people jumping in Cedartown and still working at that dropzone. Targetting Mike because his rigging loft is in that building and because he trains with his four-way team there on occasion just doesn't sit well with me.

Chuck

For the most part I agree about the personal attacks, that Chuting Star isn’t Skyride, and that Mike Gruwell isn’t “Mr. Skyride”. Mike does “tow the Skyride line”, there was/is a thread on the ASC site of which Mike Gruwell is the moderator. A couple of us put up a factual account of what Skyride does, we didn’t start the thread, didn’t flame ASC skydivers, just stated some of the facts regarding 1-800Skyride business practices. Mike deleated any posts with anything negative to say about Skyride, and he posted a nice little discription of how Skyride prevides a sweet little gift certificate service. Makes it sound like the kind of business my sweet little grandma would have loved to worked.

You are absolutly correct that attacking Mike and Chuting Star isn’t addressing the Skyride problem.

As far as working for a DZ that accepts Skyride certificates, I don’t really have a problem with that either. I was up until last week (did Skyride for 7 months) DZO of a DZ that accepted Skyride certificates. That said, I got fed up with the foul taste it left in my mouth (that would be the taste of poop). It was embarasing to me personally to have someone walk into my business with the perverbial Skyride dick still hanging out of their ass, and that I by association didn’t even offer any lubrication. If you don’t mind having a constant “poop” taste in your mouth, that’s none of my business.


Martin
AC DZ

Edited to correct the “homonym problem” pointed out by Whiterabit. Spell check is great for us with a spelling defect, but the homonym thing gets me every time.

Poor spellers of the world UNTIE!

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[whiterabbit 0]

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That said, I got fed up with the fowl taste it left in my mouth (that would be the taste of poop).

Are you sure you don't mean "the taste of chicken?" ;)

[skydived19006 4]

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That said, I got fed up with the fowl taste it left in my mouth (that would be the taste of poop).

Are you sure you don't mean "the taste of chicken?" ;)

poop, definatly poop.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[chriswelker 0]

I am about tired of the attacks directed at Mike Gruwell and Chuting Star Rigging, so let's keep this thread a bit more civil and on track.

Targetting Mike because his rigging loft is in that building and because he trains with his four-way team there on occasion just doesn't sit well with me.

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If you associate yourself and defend people who do not have the sport of skydiving in their best interests, do not get upset when you have to put up with the HEAT.

Chris Welker

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[Scrumpot 1]

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I jump at ASC because it is the best drop zone in Georgia with the best staff and aircraft.

It is also, ---apparently--- the best drop zone as well in:

Tennessee
Alabama
South Carolina
Kentucky
Mississippi
(etc.)

All... "Just a short drive down the road"

This (the blatantly false advertising practices of ASC & Skyride), is ludicrous and INEXCUSABLE by ANY "stretch", to ANY reasonably thinking person, ANYWHERE, PERIOD.

It is not needed, and it is a black eye IMHO to the sport. It should not be supported.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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on that note...If you DZ does or does not accept skyride certs, send me an email or pm. I'll start creating a list.

That's kinda like the old Nazi/fascist then later communist then McCarthyism doctrine of "turn in your neighbors", isn't it?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[teason 0]

I've gotta agree, saying that Chuting Star does bad rigging because Skyride does unethical things makes no sense. It's like saying Skyride is totally ethical because ASC is a good DZ.

Those seem to be the points coming from both sides here.

We can't start critcizing someone's ability and integrity because we don't like who they associate with.

If we have something against Skyride, it must be valid, or atleast a little more valid than "so and so is a jerk"

Conversely, coming on this forum and saying how great ASC is, is just as pathetic and has nothing to do with Skyride business tactics.

Many on this site have legit beefs against Skyride. To slag someone just because they conduct business with Ben and Cary undermines the position.

Also, to think that you can go on the ASC forum and shit in thier back yard is rediculous. Do you really think that they're going to entertain negative comments even remotely pertaining to the owners? Of course not. no matter how justified (and trust me, if anyone is justified, I am)

Remember, just cause thier heads are deep in the sand, doesn't make them bad people, just blindly adhering to what's situationally pallitable for them.

Tim

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[kelpdiver 2]

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on that note...If you DZ does or does not accept skyride certs, send me an email or pm. I'll start creating a list.

That's kinda like the old Nazi/fascist then later communist then McCarthyism doctrine of "turn in your neighbors", isn't it?

Not really. Those sort of witch hunt allegations could never be countered. Whereas the acceptance or rejection of skyride customers is a simple factual truth.

[WFFC 1]

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That's kinda like the old Nazi/fascist then later communist then McCarthyism doctrine of "turn in your neighbors", isn't it?

Not really, you're only turning in your own DZ...

-----
~~~Michael

[jumperconway 0]

OK lets just agree that as a DZ, ASC is a nice place to jump! No problem except that you are continuing to put money in the pockets of some paracites of our industries. My DZ accepts theses POS cards and I am not happy either! I am an organiser at my dz but have no call at my dz. I think Skyride is SHIT but there is nothing that I can do as long as my dzo thinks it is bringing him business that he thinks that he would not be getting otherwise. The other dz's in the area have shunned the service as far as I know and he would be better off not accepting the gifts. I personally would like to see every state see every dz refuse the coupons and end the discussion! If NO one accepts this crap it disipears!

[Levin 0]

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I am about tired of the attacks directed at Mike Gruwell and Chuting Star Rigging, so let's keep this thread a bit more civil and on track.

If any of you, as individuals or business owners being "scammed", have real grief with the skyride system then I suggest you take action. Conversely, if you are simply interested in joining a wide-ranging witch hunt or jumping on the bandwagon of an issue which does not affect you personally in any way then I suggest you get over it. I, personally, do not like the advertising practices of the ASC/SkyRide conglomerate, but that does not stop me from working at a dropzone which accepts the certificates (as does SlotPerfect). Nor does any of this make me think any less of the people jumping in Cedartown and still working at that dropzone. Targetting Mike because his rigging loft is in that building and because he trains with his four-way team there on occasion just doesn't sit well with me.

Sorry the content of this thread does not sit well with you. Alot of people have real grief with what Skyride is doing. A number of them are already taking action in the form of lawsuits. It takes time and money to get that ball rolling. Voicing opinions and facts in this thread is also a form of taking action. This thread has brought this subject into a whole new light. Those opinions and facts are what informs the reader on this issue. This issue affects everybody and I don't think anybody is going to just get over it. The funds generated from SkyRide are used to open new 'real' ASC affiliated DZ's with a similar code of ethics. When that happens in your home town it will personally affect you. The title of this thread is "What can we do about SkyRide?". The thread is a call for action. The proposals by some to boycott SkyRide, ASC, ChutingStar Rigging Loft and DZ's that accept the certificates is a legitimate proposed form of action. I'm not sure if I agree with it or not, but wether we like it or not is beside the point. If you choose to jump at a DZ that accepts the certificates then that is your prerogative. Nobody is putting down the fun jumpers at ASC because they choose to jump there. All that has been asked of them is to inform themselves on this issue. My opinion of the staff is different. They support a DZ whose business practices are illegal, unethical and very questionable. Mike hasn't been targeted because his loft is in the building or his 4-way team is based there. He's being targeted because he is the staff manager at ASC. He oversees a staff that for example lies and claims to be a DZ they are not in an effort to solicit credit card charges from their competitor's customers (post #384). Since he is the manager he is responsible. As for his business, Mike knew or should have known that the good name of his rigging loft could be tarnished by associating it with an unethical dropzone and a parasitic company.

[dropzonefool 0]

Mike,

So what? your some bad ass rigger in Atlanta. You know more than the rest of us, in our limited knowledge of rigging, that is your excuse for defending skyride? (remember were talking about skyride, and asc is the root)



It sounds to me that your trying to defend yourself, rather than skyride! Unnecessary comment removed by slotperfect

Where is Ben and Cary to help defend you? We have read the post of your younger jumpers defending your loft, but have herd nothing from Ben or Cary in your defense!

You have posted how you write articles for the better of the sport, have you nothing to say about the stolen material from skyride!

Its like SID wrote that a moderator deleted...................and it continues to be of no contribution to this thread, and was removed again - slotperfect

For someone who has been in the sport as long as you have, don't you know about the rats and the sinking ship story?
I have nothing against the jumpers in Atlanta, their DZ is marketed very well, and they should be happy to jump a turbine every day if they wish, or that they have a professional rigger heading up the staff. However they should feel ashamed that all the money they pay for jumps goes to the theft of copyrighted material......I hate thieves!

I have written in this forurm that I was out! but you Mike have brought be back into it! Your DZO's are thieves, it has been proved in this fourm, with links taken from the actual skyride websights. I received an email from the management of Skydive centers thanking me for informing them that skyride has hijacked their sight, and thier materials and they have taken steps to reduce skyride.

Its not just us ( jumpers) its DZO's everywhere that hate skyride for their illegle practices. You should stop posting in this forum, you apparlently are digging your own hole. I would hate to see you buried in it. Go back to your loft, and ignore this forum,
Since you have taken sides, I will also, no more work for chutingstar rigging services from me!

[kallend 2,027]

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I am about tired of the attacks directed at Mike Gruwell and Chuting Star Rigging, so let's keep this thread a bit more civil and on track.

Targetting Mike because his rigging loft is in that building and because he trains with his four-way team there on occasion just doesn't sit well with me.

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If you associate yourself and defend people who do not have the sport of skydiving in their best interests, do not get upset when you have to put up with the HEAT.

Chris Welker

"Birds of a feather flock together"

or as my dear departed Mother told me when I was very young: "You are judged according to the people you associate with".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[justchrisdsp 0]

i just think this is funny, this is a link to skydive nashville's website, of course it is an asc bullshit site, but why when it says skydivenashville on the web adress is it telling us to choose skydive knoxville. i thnk they made a fuck up. oh well, i am tired of this kind of bullshit, i was going to go over to asc a couple of weeks ago with some friends, but i just cant get it out of my head how much bs they are spewing to everyone. so anyway here is the link, check it out and get a big laugh for yourself.. and if someone wants to put this glaring contradiction on the asc site it is fine with me, they wont let me post anymore.

http://www.skydivenashville.com/pages/choose_skydive_knoxville.html

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The only bad skydive is your last!
chris "sonic wookie" harwell
Piedra-belluda-roja Rodriguez

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[nate_1979 9]

LOL... that's awsome.. Not only do they create fake sites stealing crap, (which saves them alot of work) THEY CANT EVEN DO IT RIGHT...

Good stuff....

But what I really want to see is this dropzone that is open THIS much:

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We have are open from 7:00am until 11:00pm, 7 days a week, 365 days a year

I'm new so I may be ignorent of this, but is there a drop zone anywhere that's open till 11pm?

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[slotperfect 7]

This thread is deteriorating.

It began as a call for action to curb 1-800-SKYRIDE's deceptive and unethical business practices.

ASC predictably entered the conversation because of commonality of business practices and ownership that had been discussed many times before here in the forums.

Chuting Star Rigging came then came under the microscope because it is "associated" by doing business on the same DZ.

The list of "associated" people who seem to have been thoughtlessly lumped into a "bad guy" category now includes Chuck Blue.

Now it's time for me to step up and wave the bullshit flag.

Until now I have kept my opinion out of this thread. I saw from the beginning, and others who volunteer to manage this site agreed, that this thread would require more careful moderation than others because 1) it is an incredibly controversial subject, and 2) it is seen by us as such a valuable conversation within our sport that we didn't want it to be locked or removed once it resorted to inciteful comments and name calling.

I do not know Cary or Ben. I have never been to ASC. I have never done business with Chuting Star Rigging, other than greatly benefitting from reading the "Rigger Rant and Rave." I was made aware of Skyride's tactics by a good friend who manages a large DZ.

I deplore the deceptive, deceitful, and unethical business practices of any business that chooses to be blatantly dishonest out of sheer greed.

I work at a DZ that accepts Skyride certificates. I have had two conversations with a key person in management there to get them to stop. It hasn't yet, and in a professional manner I told the person concerned that it would not be the last conversation I had with them about the subject. I will continue to do so as more evidence reveals itself to reinforce my point. They have read this thread, and I'm sure are reading this comment.

Chuck Blue (SkymonkeyONE) works side-by-side with me. I have been skydiving at Raeford for 15 years, and Chuck has been there longer than I have. I feel comfortable speaking for him in saying that both of us will continue to work there, handling our concerns with Skyride affecting our beloved sport in our own way. We respect each other and our DZ environment enough not to carelessly group anyone into a "bad guy" pile and ruin already established relationships or the potential for future friends.

Back to this thread . . . it is an open forum. Regardless of who is on what side, anyone is welcome to post here if they follow the Forum Rules. If they don't, we Moderators will deal with each case fairly and professionally and without bias. This will absolutely NOT turn into a situation in which one side gets flamed so they will go away and stop posting.

Adding name calling or pointedly accusatory comments to already belabored points is not only ineffective, it clouds the clear and valid points that have been made here.

Choose from what's important.

Arrive Safely

John

[Hooknswoop 19]

I'm not sure what people expect Mike to do, sut down his business in protest? He has to put food on the the table,just like everyone else. If anyone thinks that skydivers will take a stand and boycott a DZ for whatever reason, I learned a long time ago, they won't. If an ASC staff member stands up and says, "This isn't right, I quit." They'll be replaced before the week is out. If you offer tham an equal or better job at a different DZ, they may leave, but expecting them to quit isn't fair. Same thing apllys to staff at DZ's that accept the Certificates. You can ask them to educate their DZO's, but anything beyond that jepordizes their livelyhood (and attempting to educucate their DZO may jepordize their livelyhood as it is) and you can't expect them to do that.

Skyride is the issue. Focus on Skride. Trying to target anyone associated with ASC/Skyride makes your cause lose focus, support, and momemtum.

Derek

[BillyVance 34]

I for one, agree that Mike isn't simply going to bite the hand that feeds him pretty well. He has already shown himself on this thread to accept and support the business practices of Skyride and its owners. We really need to aim for the top. Target the owners with the lawsuits and criminal charges and whatnot. Let the chips fall as they may, and those who knowingly associate themselves in business with alleged criminals will reap what they sow. It's called aiding and abetting. Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skydived19006 4]

This may be redundant for most of us but; I called Soaring Sports (Skyride) yesterday mainly to see where they might be telling someone form Wichita they are sending them to skydive. They're doing a $40 discount, strangely even after the discount the price is still 198.45 after the “discount”
Bruce (not sure if that’s his real name) told me that I would go to between 10 and 14,000 feet, have 1 minute of freefall on a tandem which must be from 14k down to 4k, then I would have a 7 to 10 min canopy ride (I guess somehow we went back up to 7k+ when we opened, hell that’s what most Wafos think anyway). He told me that if I did the video I would get an “ESPN digital quality” video (I’m sure ESPN uses Sony PC cameras, you think?). As I said earlier the main purpose of my call was to see where he would be sending me for my skydive. They will not give the name of the DZ until they have the money for obvious reasons, but he did give me vague directions, which were to Air Capital Drop Zone again as stated earlier ACDZ no longer honors Skyride certificates. After Skyride has the customers money, finding a “Skyride DZ” becomes the customer’s problem. I guess it’s not all that far form Wichita Kansas to ASC, people are so spoiled with the “McDonalds mentality” these days. Shut up and make the drive!
I had to press regarding the price as to whether the $165 was all I was going to pay “are their any taxes or other fees?” kind of thing, and Bruce (again, not sure if this is his real name) after a couple questions form different directions did finally tell me that there would be a charge for instruction and gear rental bring the “discounted” price to $198.45 for the tandem skydive.
Next time I call I think I’ll see what happens if I tell them that I don’t want the “extras”. I can do without the instruction, and if the tandem instructor is willing to skydive without the aid of a deceleration device then lets get’re on! If they tell me that the airplane is “gear”, then they are not offering me a skydive as the parachute is optional (just required to skydive twice), but the aircraft is mandatory. That would be like a taxi service supplying the driver, but the car being an extra.

“1800Skyride sells gift certificates for skydiving, along with other things such as Hot Air Balloon rides, glider rides, etc. The company markets itself nationally and those people that buy the certificates make a skydive at one of its participating centers. So the customer buys a certificate and then redeems it for a skydive. 1800Skyride advertises heavily and in return gets a lot of business...and in turn so do the participating centers. There is nothing wrong with that.”
Mike Gruwell, copied/quoted form the ASC forum

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[NightJumper 0]

That is not smart to go after Chuck, his wife Katie must be 6'4" and 280lbs and will kick you ass!

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[Hooknswoop 19]

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He has already shown himself on this thread to accept and support the business practices of Skyride and its owners.

He may not agree, but if he states that opinion, he could lose his rigging business, etc. He may be doing the best he can to change things (I don't know), without risking his income. I have seen a TI told to take a student or be fired. Not a lot of choice there for a full-time TI. I have been in a situation where I woprked for a DZO that was less than honest. I couldn't say, "change or I quit." His respons would have been, "Don't let the hangar door hit you on the ass on your way out." Where would I have been then? As soon as I could find a new job, I quit and left.

When it is your job on the line, it isn't so easy to take a stand, you have a lot to lose.

Derek