What can we do about Skyride?

[slug 1]

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Do the DZs that accept Skyride's "business model" really care what the rest of the skydiving industry think about them?

I doubt it as long as the supply of skyrides confused tandem baggage keeps on knocking on their door with their overpriced certificates.

If what you say were true, then there would be more DZ accepting their certificates instead of a declining number of participating DZs. Also, many posts in this thread describe the reduced profit that a DZ sees for a skyride student, and the other hassles that accompany being a skyride participating DZ.

Hi sundevil

I was only talking about the DZ's that are continueing to accept skyrides business. These DZ's are well aware of skyrides business practice's & commitment to customer service. But have chosen to do business with them anyway. I'm sure these DZ's are doing it because the cost/benifit ratio is in their favor.

The DZ's that won't accept skyrides business do it for the reasons you mention, and many other's that theirs no point in repeating.

Over the last couple of year we've seen major scandles in the business community (Enron et al) skyride is just little fish in a big pond of business's with "questionable" ethic's.

I suspect that unless Skyride decides on their own to stop doing business (for whatever reason) or are convicted of criminal charges it will be business as usual as long as some DZ's will enable them by acccepting their business.

R.I.P.

[BillyVance 34]

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Over the last couple of year we've seen major scandles in the business community (Enron et al) skyride is just little fish in a big pond of business's with "questionable" ethic's.

Well, when you think about it, the sport of skydiving is actually a pretty small pond out there in the world, and skyride is affecting a good portion of this small pond, poisoning it to the point where only they can survive in it, if they keep it up...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kallend 2,026]

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As just seen in the Swooping and Canopy Control Forum:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1567212;#1567212

Anyone else have the same reaction/observation to this, as to and related to this subject? If this is absolutely so, even over and above the DOCUMENTED unethical (and arguably illegal) just business practices of this "organization"; even outside of all that, and again ...if this post is absolutely so, how much of this sort of thing are many of us going to just sit idly by and tollerate, as a COMMUNITY?

?????

" Forums: An error occurred

The post you attempted to access does not exist "


What was this all about?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[slotperfect 7]

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The post you attempted to access does not exist

The thread was deleted - not sure why.

Arrive Safely

John

[Scrumpot 1]

Not just "deleted", but out-n-out OBLITERATED apparently, as if it had never even existed!

Hmmm.... If I had only just "copied-n-pasted", rather than linked instead? Any "greenie" perhaps care to explain? IIRC, there was no either personal attacks, nor child porn (the 2 "obliteration rules" that I know of) within the post I had linked. So somebody yes, please do tell... what gives???

My apologies now, that my post above here as a result, now has a "dead link" within it.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[PhreeZone 20]

I think there is an effort being made to keep DZ politics off the boards. That thread was DZ politics to the core.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Scrumpot 1]

Okay, and this thread is what????

Did you happen to see the particular post that was linked to BEFORE it was apparently OBLITERATED? Not the thread mind you, because Phree, THAT is indeed STILL there! The only thing deleted from there as far as I can tell, was THIS post. For whatever that means, or that is worth.

Personally, I'm not "involved" with any of this, so I have absolutely no stake in ANY "dz politics". What I was linking to, and referring to was a single post, put up by somebody who had stated very directly, that Cary Quattrone (sp?) has personally, and very directly made threats of physical violence to that PERSON (not another DZO, that I know of). My post linking to that (which link of course is useless now because THAT post has been for whatever reason DELETED), was put up for the sole purpose of asking I suppose whether anyone, again IF that post were indeed FACTUAL, felt that was in ANY way REASONABLE, or tolerable?

Perhaps the reason that post has been taken down is that it was instead just simply NOT factual?? The rest of the thread though itself other than that, as far as I can tell, still remains in tact.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[marks 0]

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I think there is an effort being made to keep DZ politics off the boards. That thread was DZ politics to the core.

a bunch of negative bullshit was in that thread, and if you dont know the bullshit, your better off. no worries.

shit happens, people get pissed and type there feelings, then words start flying that were never said, wich makes everything worse. the thread is better off gone. i feel like an ass being a part of it.

[slotperfect 7]

I didn't delete the thread in the Swoop Forum, so I can't comment on why it was deleted. Let's not hijack this one . . . get it back on topic please.

Arrive Safely

John

[skydived19006 4]

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Look take skyride out of the factor at this point! Okay Look i do my job as you do and i do it to the best of my ablity the same as of you would. Yes I work for ASC and I love my Job Skydiving is like a dream job i mean it is awesome.

And as for Skyride I dont care what they do because it does do any good know does it. I cant bitch and complain but it doesnt get me anywhere.

Wow! Generally I’d be the last one to pick on someone’s writing skills, but Damn! It takes me two or three reads to decipher your comments freefallmomma. I understand that you’re just trolling, but I’ll respond anyway.

Writing aside, I am a DZO, I did in the past accept Skyride GCs, and no longer do! Not that you live by the same standards that I do, or would I ever expect you to. I had a problem being in bed with the crooks that the owners of Skyride are. Of the 30 or so tandem students that came to me through Skyride, every one of them walked in with a decidedly strange gate, for the fact that the proverbial Skyride dick was still well embedded up their ass! By accepting the GCs I was an accomplice in the rape, and so as I gained information I decided to no longer be a part of it!
I can’t put a number on how Skyride has hurt my bottom line, I would expect it isn’t by much. I called them as a potential customer a few months after I stopped being a Skyride accomplice. Within that conversation with the “reservation specialist” I was lied to on sever occasions. I asked where their “local DZ” might be, and they gave me vague directions to my DZ “SE of you about 40 minutes” my DZ is 30 minutes SE of where I told them I was, and I’m the only one out there for hundreds of miles.

If your children were aware of the unethical practices that you’re involved in as a Skyride employee/accomplice, you should ask yourself how you would explain yourself. If you found out that your children were involved in cheating their fellow school mates out of their lunch money how would you handle it? Maybe they set up a little booking agency where they took their classmates lunch money with the promise of all things good. Took their cut, and sent them to their school lunch room with a gift certificate that was not accepted, but had to be redeemed at Freefall Mommas Best Ever Peanut Butter Kitchen. It matters not whether you make the best damn peanut butter sandwiches on the face of the earth (“ASC is a great DZ”), your children are still screwing the customer, and I bet in short order you’d have a few people on your doorstep complaining about your children’s little “service”.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[ninjaswooper 0]

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anyboday really want the goods on skyride???
i was a web designer for them for about three months before i was fired for bringing up ethical issues i had a problem with.

all the things you see around the web concerning skyride are just the tip of the iceburg, TRUST ME! I have seen things go on there that are soooooo very jacked up. hell on my second day the cops were there asking questions about the company and ben and cary were either not coming in to work or parking at the shopping center accross the street.
well, if anyone really wants the goods email me privatly. sometime soon im gonna post an article on the web about the things i witnessed there.

I believe this is the first anonymous post on a controversial topic which I have seen the denizens of dz.com fail to castigate as a troll... I guess if it's a troll you like, it's ok.

[mnealtx 0]

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I believe this is the first anonymous post on a controversial topic which I have seen the denizens of dz.com fail to castigate as a troll... I guess if it's a troll you like, it's ok.

No, I don't see it that way - to me it seems more confirmation that Skyride is dirty...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Scrumpot 1]

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...I guess if it's a troll you like, it's ok.

And what else is new?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[ninjaswooper 0]

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I believe this is the first anonymous post on a controversial topic which I have seen the denizens of dz.com fail to castigate as a troll... I guess if it's a troll you like, it's ok.

No, I don't see it that way - to me it seems more confirmation that Skyride is dirty...

I guess if we close our eyes we can convince ourselves to see anything we want. But I see your name on these forums enough to deduce that you've seen virtually anyone else who posts on here with no info automatically labelled a troll. If you deny that, you're lying.

[DrewGPM 0]

so talking about who is and isn't a troll is your idea of getting the thread back on track?

The thread is about what we can do about Skyride. Can we PLEASE get back to that?

Anybody have an update or input on this topic?

[bbarnhouse 0]

well...no email entered in your profile. I PM'd you and no reply.
The things that make you go.....Hummmmm

[diablopilot 2]

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The thread is about what we can do about Skyride. Can we PLEASE get back to that?

What you fail to see is not everyone thinks something needs to be done.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jlmiracle 7]

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The thread is about what we can do about Skyride. Can we PLEASE get back to that?

What you fail to see is not everyone thinks something needs to be done.

Diablopilot you appear to be one of those people, yet you keep posting to this thread. For someone who doesn't care, you spend alot time posting on threads you don't care about to let us know you don't care about it.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[DrewGPM 0]

I see that just fine.

The answer to "what can we do?" may be "nothing". Feel free to post that. If you think we should do X, then go ahead and say it. But the debating about trolls is just silly.

If there is nothing new, maybe this thread will die

[sundevil777 102]

What would be new is if we posted those DZs that accepted the certificates.

I would have thought that such a list would be worth building up in this thread. I mentioned Greensburg (Indiana), but nothing else has been posted.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[MakeItHappen 15]

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What would be new is if we posted those DZs that accepted the certificates.

I think that would be counter-productive.

In the past 4 years, I've talked to or emailed a LOT of DZOs that at one time did take Skyride GC.

Most of these DZOs feel 'stupid' (their description, not mine) for having been lured into the bait-n-switch plan.

You see, not only does SkyRide dupe the prospective first jumper, they also dupe and apply high-pressure sales tactics upon DZOs. Some DZOs have thought 'Well, if I don't take them then my competitor will.' Then they come to learn that Skyride sets up an agreement with their competitor at a slightly lower wholesale price and referrals go to the competitor, even though they were 'promised' geographical exclusivity. Then Skyride comes back and says you have to lower your wholesale price in order to get referrals. At the same time Skyride keeps it's retail price the same. (That means Skyride gets more of the cut.) You end up with local DZs undercutting their wholesale price, losing money and making money for Skyride. This scenario has played out on the east coast, the midwest and the west coast.

One DZO told me he is pestered by Skyride at the beginning of each season. He keeps saying NO!, but they keep pestering him. There is nothing illegal about a persistent salesperson. But persistent salespeople do make additional sales.

You know what bugs me the most now. The DZOS that have 'suddenly seen the light' and call me to tell me all about what Skyride does. I've heard the story over and over. They bend my ear for 30-40 minutes. I keep saying 'uh-huh', 'uh-huh'. Now all of a sudden they want me and USPA to 'DO SOMETHING!' I've been explaining what they do for years - ever since that rainy weekend I paid attention to Billy Vance's posts on rec.skydiving.

I've worked very hard elevating this problem to the USPA BOD. At most - the very most USPA can do is to toss Ben and Cary and their DZs out of USPA. That will not guarantee any changes by Skyride. Only Ben and Cary can change what they do.

Quick fix: Do not take their gift certificates!

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[BillyVance 34]

A-MEN!!!

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[teason 0]

Umm.... ok, Why are you posting here?
It can't be because you want meaningful debate. Your comments have always seemed to be in defense of Skyride without real substance.

I feel they skim profit from DZs that could use the extra income for new gear, upgraded airpower and so on.
I feel they do not expand the market and increase DZ traffic (unless it's at the expense of another DZ)
I feel they cause disatisfaction among customers and word of mouth advertising can work against the sport when it's that negative.
I know they have engaged in theft (Duh)
I know they mislead customers (unethical)
I know they operate with loose morals.

Argue against it cogently. Saying that some people don't what anything to be done makes no arguement at all. What if it's true. What if 99% of all skydivers are indifferent to Skyride's tactics. How the hell does this effect the above statements?
Why not post that the sky is blue, or that you like peanut butter sandwiches?
Oh yeah, that woudn't stir the pot now would it.
It's like you can't think of a strong enough arguement so you resort to the "no one cares about what you think" technique, hoping to undermine the opposing view by declaring that people don't care. Weak, very weak.

Now go home, get that two cycle weed wacker brain humming and get ready for the next thicket because you need to give a well placed point of view. Give some valid side to your pro Skyride emotion and join in! The waters warm.

Just bring a bathing suit for crying out loud!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[diablopilot 2]

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Umm.... ok, Why are you posting here?

Because I can.

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Your comments have always seemed to be in defense of Skyride without real substance.

They have never been in defence of Skyride. If the people who are most vocal in this thread would open their eyes they would see there are more than two sides to this issue. The statement "What can WE do about Skyride" irked me from the get go, because it seems to expect that everyone should be involved, and that you're either for or against.

Get over it. They are a business. Look into the operation of your own home DZ and I'll bet you see some of the same practices.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kelel01 1]

"We" is a plural pronoun. It simply indicates greater than 1. Perhaps "we" find it strange that you're irked by the fundamentals of the English language.