What can we do about Skyride?

[skydived19006 4]

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Using the name of another business on your web page to fool search engines is not good marketing - unless you think that running red lights to get places faster is good driving.

Maybe not "good" but affective. Running red lights to get where you're going faster may not be good driving, but it is affective, at lest until you crash, or are stoped, ticketed, etc.

By "good marketing" he obviously wasn't trying to make Skyride out to be the "guys in the white hat", just that they are good at doing what they do.

Congratulations on being post #2000! How long to hit 3000?

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[LloydDobbler 2]

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Using the name of another business on your web page to fool search engines is not good marketing - unless you think that running red lights to get places faster is good driving.

Please. You're arguing semantics here. If you want to say it's not "good" marketing, fine.

What I'm seeing is another person chiming in trying to argue about the meaning of a particular word, rather than contributing to a discussion about trying to find a solution to a problem. If we keep getting hung up on arguing whether or not Skyride's marketing can be classified as "good," then we deserve to be frustrated with Skyride's success, because we're just arguing ridiculous points & not actually doing anything.

I'll correct: "Skyride has effective marketing." Better? ...can we maybe move on to some productive discussion?

(edited because I can't seem to type straight.)

Signatures are the new black.

[DSE 5]

I'm in the camp of those wanting to shut Skyride down, but FWIW...
Attending the DZO conference here at PIA, I was bowled over by the numbers of DZ's that accept the Skyride coupons.
So, while there are obviously (and rightfully so) angry people regarding the existence and business practices of Skyride, there are a lot of DZ's actually supporting the practice, saying that without Skyride, they'd have fewer tandems. I'd venture to say that by show of hands, at least 30% of the DZO's in the room were taking coupons from Skyride.

[popsjumper 2]

*sigh*

and so the drama continues.

Ask the buttheads where all those tandems would go if Skyride wasn't around. I'd venture to guess to the closest DZ to them.

Ask them how they feel about screwing their buddies with the tandems that unknowingly pass up the nearest DZ and going to theirs.

Ask them how they feel about the customers who find out they been hornswoggled into making a long drive, not getting to jump and not getting their money back.

Name as many of the DZs that you can.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DSE 5]

For me, it wouldn't be appropriate to ask those questions, even if the opportunity hadn't passed on Monday during the conference. I did note quite a few DZO's such as Larry Hill of Skydive Arizona, Jack Guthrie of Skydive Utah, Bob Dougherty of Skydive Greensburg, all being shocked, surprised (insert your own description here) at those that were raising their hands when the question was asked.
In my opinion, I think the USPA was asking the question so they might make some decisions as to "what to do if anything" about the Skyride situation.
Sadly (again IMO) it is VERY easy to shut Skyride down if the industry as a whole truly doesn't want them around.
Skyride knows this.
It's no different than Ford Motor company releasing the Pinto with a bad gas tank...get the money while you can, pay for the lawsuits if and when they come. It's a gamble as to how long they can exist, and based on the cars, homes, etc that the owners of Skyride own....it's been a good bet so far. But eventually...the deck will run dry. Utah's CBS affiliate just shot another story about Skyride ripping off another customer, and the customer had to go out of state to jump, even though there was a DZ less than 15 minutes from her home. This is the second story this particular affiliate station has done.

[teason 0]

I think what you're trying to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're saying that Skyride's strategies are effective.

Skyride only steals websites that make them look good.
Skyride successfully skims a a portion of internet traffic.
Skyride is very aware of the importance of image and search engine positioning to get customers.

There are things that we can do to address the Skyride threat by way of improving our own sites, concentrating on image and search engine rank.

That is true and we shouldn't just throw up our hands and say "They're taking our business cause they are crooked!!!!" We also need to look to improve our own marketing.

The only point that I think needs to be made is that Skyrides tactics, while effective, are unethical and we cannot have a truly level playing field until either they stop or we use the same unethical methods. As the latter is not an option for most of us, we need to stop them from their unethical behavour.
That can only be done through such things as legal action, sanctions and other forms of leverage against the behavour.

After all, it didn't matter how good my website was, when Skyride stole my site, added their phone number to it and placed the site in the same market we had a presence in, it profited off of misrepresentation.

That is the wrong that we get emotional about.

It the theft of our identity and hard work.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Skyride does more than just web site optimization. They use meta tags with the name of competing drop zones to get to the top of a GOOGLE search along with the legitimate holder of the name. That's got to be confusing to people looking for a place to do their first tandem.

Just an FYI, Google has made some recent changes to prevent google bombing, it also impacts this sort of SEO.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Any updates on any of the lawsuits against ASC and Skyride?I wonder how long it will take for the BBB and States Attorney General to become aware of their new companies?

[DSE 5]

I haven't heard any updates on the ASC/Skyride portion, but the Attorney General for the state of Utah is very well aware of Skyride and their other aliases, and is investigating them at this time. Apparently Skyride is aware of the investigation, because they've changed their Utahskydiving.com page several times. I'm guessing they're not smart enough to realize that everytime they change the page, the page is screen cap'd, saved, and kept as part of the evidence folder. Three changes to the website in less than a month. so someone is actively prepping Skyride/Thrillride for the season, or trying to dodge bullets.

[skyjames 2]

Changing content on a web site is one way for META tag readers (spiders eg) to keep websites in the forefront on web searches. Changes may be viewed as updates. Maybe not smart in this case, but profitable. Remember, the only reason these ppl are successful is DZ's accept their cupons. Ask your DZ if they accept them.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

[DSE 5]

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Changing content on a web site is one way for META tag readers (spiders eg) to keep websites in the forefront on web searches. Changes may be viewed as updates. Maybe not smart in this case, but profitable. Remember, the only reason these ppl are successful is DZ's accept their cupons. Ask your DZ if they accept them.

There isn't a DZ in the state of Utah that accepts them. All four DZO's in Utah have gotten together to create a stand against Skyride. This is why the Attorney General of the State of Utah is well aware, and investigating, is that there have been 4 consumer fraud-type news stories relating to Skyride, and they have no Utah presence nor DZ's that will accept their coupons. Therefore, by advertising as though they are a local provider, they are committing fraud in the eyes of the DZ's here, and hopefully the AG will find the same.

[skyjames 2]

I apologize for not reading 2000+ posts, seems others posted the same info earlier in this thread. As far as Utah is concerned, good on the DZ owners there.
After the SB179 crapola I decided I wouldn't get irate at any DZ owner, just vote with my feet and wallet. I do have a new home DZ because of "SR" coupon acceptance. To bad, the old one was a lot closer. At any rate, that's what I did about skyride.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

[matthewcline 0]

It starts with one and blossoms from there.
My old DZ has entertained the idea and even informally taken a few certificates. I have not been back since.

Hard to make money when the staff isn't there to care for the clients.

That is another way in which SR hurts the industry, the infighting.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[DSE 5]

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I apologize for not reading 2000+ posts, seems others posted the same info earlier in this thread. As far as Utah is concerned, good on the DZ owners there.
After the SB179 crapola I decided I wouldn't get irate at any DZ owner, just vote with my feet and wallet. I do have a new home DZ because of "SR" coupon acceptance. To bad, the old one was a lot closer. At any rate, that's what I did about skyride.

"SB179 crapola?" SB179 (if you're referring to the Utah Senate Bill that passed last week, #SB179, that bill supports dropzones specifically in preventing municipalities from being sued due to an incident on municipal property, or airport in the State of Utah) has nothing to do with Skyride.
I think you've got a couple subjects confused?

[skyjames 2]

[replyAfter the SB179 crapola I decided I wouldn't get irate at any DZ owner, just vote with my feet and wallet.
--------------------------------------------
"SB179 crapola?" SB179 (if you're referring to the Utah Senate Bill that passed last week, #SB179, that bill supports dropzones specifically in preventing municipalities from being sued due to an incident on municipal property, or airport in the State of Utah) has nothing to do with Skyride.
I think you've got a couple subjects confused?

[Fast 0]

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It starts with one and blossoms from there.
My old DZ has entertained the idea and even informally taken a few certificates. I have not been back since.

Hard to make money when the staff isn't there to care for the clients.

That is another way in which SR hurts the industry, the infighting.

Matt

The dz that I belong to and help run is losing a lot of business to skyride. We refuse to take the certificates and another local DZ doesn't.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Mr17Hz 1]

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There have been plenty of threads on here about Skyride and their unethical and even illegal tactics. The Capital Commentary stopped short of using their name this month.

Is there anything we, as a community, can do to shut this down before they cause lasting damage to the industry? Before the find a way to steal student business from the real dropzones and cause them to eventually shut down?

The only idea I have ever heard someone willing to take was to google bomb them using blogs. I've heard of photographers and instructors saying they can't afford to sue them, maybe we can put together a fund to help with the costs of a lawyer?

Any ideas or anyone willing to do this?

I have been pondering this question since I first got involved in Skydiving, having narrowly avoided getting ripped off myself.

The fact is, that in order to have a significant effect on problems like this, community organizations need to get involved. Sometimes this means the government and law enforcement, sometimes just loosely organized organizations of people willing to do the right thing.

I would like everyone to read the thread that I've started on www.SkydiveSecure.org.

Pay attention to the parts that describe a self enforcing better business type organization, and the positive effect it could have on discouraging outright unethical practices.

The BBB is a greate idea, but it has one problem - only a small portion of consumers ever take the time to look up a business to see if it has outstanding complaints. What if dropzones could participate in a volentary system that would cause all new customers aquired online to see BBB type reports BEFORE even registering for that site? Maintaining good business becomes self rewarding and ripping people off because self-damaging.

Additionally, the BBB doesn't collect positive information. SkydiveSecure could be in the position to proactively gather positive feedback.

Most organizations have not been putting much effort into resolving this issue, or simply don't have the economical influence to make a difference. A system like SkydiveSecure is a very cheap way of making a considerable difference.

Matt Christenson

mattchristenson@realskydiving.com
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[PWScottIV 0]

From:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_reply_write;quote=1;parent_post_id=2706348

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Their actions (Skyride owners) will eventually catch up to them.

It would be nice to think that things always worked out like that, but history has proven that is NOT always the case... Take Hitler for example... Do you think he got what he had coming to him? Not even close. I agree that people who screw others over usually have something bad happen to them, but on the other hand there's plenty of perfectly innocent people who have VERY bad things happen to them all the time... So in my book, karma is not an effective method of punishment... Nor is relying on the law to take care of it (especially if this crap has been going on for as long as it has)... By the time things are settled legally (if they ever are), there's gonna be a lot more damage to our industry's image. These assholes are sitting back reading about us complaining on here and probably laughing their asses off... Why not give them something that they won't laugh about?

A DDOS attack would take care of everything. Their business is NOTHING without the websites. Anyone wanna?

Gravity Waits for No One.

[BillyVance 34]

That other thread that was locked.... The picture of the webpage was hilarious!

Then again, what did you expect??? They put up 500+ web sites. They're bound to make a mistake here and there.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Akey 0]

hi guys
Excuse me for my ignorance but can someone give me a quick heads up as to the problem with these guys. I've flicked though the last few pages and it sounds as though they have been hijacking websites, is this so? But wouldn't that be illegal? Also, i looked at their website and what they were offering didn't appear completly unreasonable... I'm sure i'm missing something really big

[mnealtx 0]

http://www.funjumper.com/skyride/

here ya go

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[bbarnhouse 0]

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They put up 500+ web sites

That would be a very conservative number

[BillyVance 34]

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They put up 500+ web sites

That would be a very conservative number

You're right, sorry! I was thinking 5 years ago. Multiply 500 by 5... sound about right?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Thanatos340 1]

Lies, theft and Deception.

They have 100`s of website for Dropzone that do not really exist.

They lie to customers when they do call in about who they are and where they are located.

They will not tell a customer where they will be making a jump until after they get their non-refundable Credit Card info.

They send people sometimes several states over to a dropzone that accepts their Certificates when they may pass several other DZ`s along the way.

They have been know to sell certificates for dropzones that do not accept their certificates and then refuse to give the customer a refund once they find out.

They stole many Picture and sometimes even entire web pages from many Jumpers and set up webpages for DZ`s that do not really exist with these images.

When the Owner of a Tennessee Dropzone was killed in a Skydiving accident, They called up the Phone company shortly after his death pretending to be the Dead DZO and had the 1-800 number for his dropzone redirected to their Offices.

These are only a few of the things this company has done.

[Akey 0]

That is fucked up. They need to be shut down, like yesterday.