jlmiracle 7 #76 November 5, 2007 Quote You think the French put a picture of Airspeed in their calendar? Maybe Airspeed will just make you a calendar that's all them all the time. It probably would make em' some money too. (but some of them are just gonna have to get naked for me to buy it.) jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #77 November 5, 2007 Well I don’t know if they hate us but I think that they are not fulfilling the intent and purpose for which the association was formed. The USPA constitution states: The purposes for which USPA is formed are as follows: …to promote safety in all skydiving activities in the United States, to sanction skydiving competitions; to document officially all national and world skydiving records set by citizens of the U.S…. to select and train the United States Parachute Team for world competition. So they are a United States Non-for-Profit corporation that leads you to think the they are promoting skydiving and U.S. skydivers when it would appear that in this case they are not. If the USPA wants to be an international association then they need to change the name and constitution so as to not misrepresent its purpose to the membership.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #78 November 5, 2007 Quote So they are a United States Non-for-Profit corporation that leads you to think the they are promoting skydiving and U.S. skydivers when it would appear that in this case they are not. Where does it say promote US skydivers? It clearly states "promote safety in all skydiving activities in the United States". Just in case you have problem parsing, that mean they are promoting Safety, in the US. The Only sections of the constitution that relates to US citizens are about record documentation, and US team selection and Training. Note that they did not have "promote" in that section. If you quoted the Constitution to prove your point, I think you kinda killed it...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #79 November 5, 2007 Quote That's a bit silly. By your argument, Airspeed represents Eloy, not USPA. After all, they are not "USPA Airspeed" they are "Arizona Airspeed." There is a photo of the French NATIONAL team on the cover of the USPA Calendar. They represent France at international competitions. At the last World Meet ( and the next one) Airspeed represented (and will represent) the USA and the French national team represented France. I am not saying the calendar has to show Airspeed, just not the national team of another country on its cover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #80 November 5, 2007 Quote Where does it say promote US skydivers? "In its governing role, USPA is officially recognized by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as the representative of skydivers in the United States" (USPA SIM) Remy you seem to be implying the USPA has no more relevance to the USA than any other nation's Parachute Association. That just doesn't make sense. The USPA also 'select and train the United States' parachute teams' (paraphrased) - it is a slap in the face to promote the national team of another country on the front cover of the calendar. Otherwise let's just call it World PA and be done with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #81 November 5, 2007 Quote Quote That's a bit silly. By your argument, Airspeed represents Eloy, not USPA. After all, they are not "USPA Airspeed" they are "Arizona Airspeed." There is a photo of the French NATIONAL team on the cover of the USPA Calendar. They represent France at international competitions. At the last World Meet ( and the next one) Airspeed represented (and will represent) the USA and the French national team represented France. I am not saying the calendar has to show Airspeed, just not the national team of another country on its cover. Do you think repeating the same thing over and over and over and over and over... helps you make your point?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #82 November 5, 2007 If you look above you will see that is exactly what you have done, word for word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #83 November 5, 2007 Why should the USPA discriminate against certain USPA members because of their country of citizenship?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #84 November 5, 2007 It should better support its own competitors, role models and nationals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #85 November 5, 2007 Quote Why should the USPA discriminate against certain USPA members because of their country of citizenship?Because the USPA constitution and bylaws say so. Notice for example that the USPA constitution specifically states that to document officially all national and world skydiving records set by citizens of the U.S If the association was representing an international membership why would it only specify the U.S.? Also if the intent was to have a global representation why would they call it the United States Parachute Association? That name sounds pretty geographically specific to me.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #86 November 5, 2007 >I am not saying the calendar has to show Airspeed, just not the >national team of another country on its cover Personally, I am glad that USPA is an organization that understands (and acknowledges) that there is a world outside the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #87 November 5, 2007 Personally I don't think the cover of the United States PA calendar is the place to 'acknowledge' the French national 8-way team. It's not the USPA remit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #88 November 5, 2007 >Personally I don't think the cover of the United States PA calendar >is the place to 'acknowledge' the French national 8-way team. It's not the >USPA remit. Well, you asked for opinions. I'm a USPA member, and I have no problem with USPA putting skydiving images of USPA members on the covers of its magazines and calendars no matter where they are or who they represent. I would think less of them if they rejected any image of things happening outside the US (or teams who compete for other countries) because "it's not the US." I see enough of that here as it is. During World Team 06, I was in a US sector; my wife was in the Aussie sector. It would be a shame if they made the decision to post a picture of my sector but not hers because "she doesn't represent the US." Skydiving isn't really that provincial, and I hope it stays that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #89 November 5, 2007 Collective 'world' events with members from several nations is an entirely different issue. Quote Skydiving isn't really that provincial, and I hope it stays that way. By your definition, Skydiving World Meets and World Cups, which put teams and nationals of different countries in competition with each other, are also 'provincial'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #90 November 5, 2007 Quote At the last World Meet ( and the next one) Airspeed represented (and will represent) the USA and the French national team represented France. At the last World Meet there was one team from the US. It was the freestyle team of Bryce Witcher and Jason Peters. At the next World Meet Airspeed will represent 4-way, but not 8-way, even though they won 8-way at US Nationals. Knight Trax will represent the US in 8-way. FastTrax Blue will represent the US in Women's 4-way. As far as the calendar cover shot you are complaining about, the caption reads "The French National 8-way team trains above Skydive Arizona in Eloy. Photo by Mike McGowan." That's a jump done in the US and a US photographer taking the shot. The next World Meet is in France. France trains at a US DZ. (Now it is SDA. It used to be Perris.) .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #91 November 5, 2007 Quote And why, on the COVER of the 2008 USPA calendar, there is a PHOTO OF THE FRENCH 8-WAY TEAM? I was more concerned that there were going to post pictures of them from when they were hopping around the swimming pond at Skydive Chicago wearing those thong swimming suits. That was slightly unsettling."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #92 November 5, 2007 > Collective 'world' events with members from several nations is an >entirely different issue. So using a picture of the team that represents Australia at the World Team in Thailand is OK - but using a picture of the team that represents France at the World Meet isn't? I guess I'm just not going to understand your thinking on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #93 November 5, 2007 Quote At the last World Meet there was one team from the US. It was the freestyle team of Bryce Witcher and Jason Peters. I aplogise, I was referring to the World Championships (at Gera in 2006) which is generally referred to as a World Meet. Quote As far as the calendar cover shot you are complaining about, the caption reads "The French National 8-way team trains above Skydive Arizona in Eloy. Photo by Mike McGowan." That's a jump done in the US and a US photographer taking the shot. My point is that it is a photo of the French national team. Where it was taken and by whom is not the problem. Most world level competitors jump and compete all over the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #94 November 5, 2007 Quote So using a picture of the team that represents Australia at the World Team in Thailand is OK - but using a picture of the team that represents France at the World Meet isn't? If you just showed the particpants who represented the Australian contingent at the World Team in Thailand on the cover of the USPA calendar, that would be a little odd, when you could have chosen to show those who represented the US contingent. Just as it is odd to show the French national team when you could have shown any US team or individual (how about Fire, since they actually won gold afor the US at the last World Championships?) The World Team is nations working together to achieve something. World Meets as you know are teams from other nations competing against each other to win. It's not that hard to understand, Bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #95 November 5, 2007 Quote At the next World Meet Airspeed will represent 4-way, but not 8-way, even though they won 8-way at US Nationals. Knight Trax will represent the US in 8-way. FastTrax Blue will represent the US in Women's 4-way. Use one of those teams on the cover of the calendar then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #96 November 5, 2007 Quote Quote At the next World Meet Airspeed will represent 4-way, but not 8-way, even though they won 8-way at US Nationals. Knight Trax will represent the US in 8-way. FastTrax Blue will represent the US in Women's 4-way. Use one of those teams on the cover of the calendar then? Do you honestly beleive the pictures for a clendar this was printed this month were selected since the Nationals? Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #97 November 5, 2007 Just select any US team or individual, it's not that hard. (And all those teams have been around since before the Nationals). They don't have to represent or have represented the USA, they don't have to be world champions, and they don't have to be Airspeed (I never suggested that). Just not the main representatives of another nation at world level competition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #98 November 5, 2007 It's a great shot of a tight formation shot on a USPA dropzone by a USPA-member photographer, of USPA members, that adds an interesting aspect of our sport to a calendar that is already printed. No conspiracy was created in the selection of the image, I'm sure. More likely, someone was thumbing through images sent in, and found they liked that particular image without giving a second thought to politics, gender, race, or religion. I get the point about nationalism, and to a very limited point, agree with you. Whomever is producing the next calendar needs to consider politics along with the mix of color, composition, formatting, license, and skill. I hope they get a different printer that can correctly mix the colors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #99 November 5, 2007 Quote Quote At the last World Meet there was one team from the US. It was the freestyle team of Bryce Witcher and Jason Peters. I aplogise, I was referring to the World Championships (at Gera in 2006) which is generally referred to as a World Meet. I was refering to the last World Meet 2007 in Stupino, Russia. The official logo had World Meet in it, maybe it was a World Cup. Quote Quote As far as the calendar cover shot you are complaining about, the caption reads "The French National 8-way team trains above Skydive Arizona in Eloy. Photo by Mike McGowan." That's a jump done in the US and a US photographer taking the shot. My point is that it is a photo of the French national team. Where it was taken and by whom is not the problem. Most world level competitors jump and compete all over the world. So it would be ok, by you, if a pic of some US team taken in France by a French photographer made the calendar cover shot instead of a foriegn team taken at a US DZ by a US photograhper? Some how, I think you'd complain about that too. What if the photo was some boogie or invitational type jump and you did not know the nationalities of all the jumpers. Would you still complain? Pretend for a moment that the jumpers were from several nations, including the US, would you complain about it then? BTW, Willie Boeykens had a calendar shot in the past couple of years that was way cool. It had jumpers from several nations in it. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4wayFly 0 #100 November 5, 2007 Quote I was more concerned that there were going to post pictures of them from when they were hopping around the swimming pond at Skydive Chicago wearing those thong swimming suits. That was slightly unsettling. Well, I think that closes the debate in my favor nicely. You'd never catch a US skydiver doing anything like that. Well, not in a thong. Well, not in public in a thong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
