Dytter Dependency

[raftman 12]

The audibles are handy for 4 way comp.
The dives are shorter, 10,500 instead of 13,000.
So your internal clock can be off, and your really
concentrating on the dive!
On fun jumps i usually set my audible a little
higher than breakoff, hear it, then check the visual alti, check the other jumpers, check the ground,
then C ya.

[hobie331 0]

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The audibles are handy for 4 way comp.
The dives are shorter, 10,500 instead of 13,000.
So your internal clock can be off, and your really
concentrating on the dive!
On fun jumps i usually set my audible a little
higher than breakoff, hear it, then check the visual alti, check the other jumpers, check the ground,
then C ya.

Earlier this year I had the opportunity to do a 10 way that included a member of a former 8-way world champion team. I noticed he wasn't wearing a wrist or chest altimeter and pointed it out. He just pointed to his helmet. When I asked if that's all he used he said yes.
Question. How common is this?

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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The audibles are handy for 4 way comp.
The dives are shorter, 10,500 instead of 13,000.
So your internal clock can be off, and your really
concentrating on the dive!
On fun jumps i usually set my audible a little
higher than breakoff, hear it, then check the visual alti, check the other jumpers, check the ground,
then C ya.

Earlier this year I had the opportunity to do a 10 way that included a member of a former 8-way world champion team. I noticed he wasn't wearing a wrist or chest altimeter and pointed it out. He just pointed to his helmet. When I asked if that's all he used he said yes.
Question. How common is this?

There are countries where visual altimeter is a must.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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Earlier this year I had the opportunity to do a 10 way that included a member of a former 8-way world champion team. I noticed he wasn't wearing a wrist or chest altimeter and pointed it out. He just pointed to his helmet. When I asked if that's all he used he said yes.
Question. How common is this?

I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I think you'll find it's pretty common among the 4-way/8-way crowd. Having done 2 years of pretty serious 4-way I can say that while I still wore a visual alti, I would almost never actually look at it on training dives except under canopy... breakoff was when your dytter went off or the first person left, whichever came first. When all 4/8 people go by this rule, all of them leave as soon as something beeps, and you're always jumping with the same guys, it's pretty different from a casual dive with a bunch of randoms.

I think for training I'd rather have a digital in a glove or sleeve pocket so it isn't so bulky, but for anything else I'd rather have the old-fashioned Alti-III... too much unpredictable s**t going on to skip the visual, plus I've been guilty once or twice of forgetting to re-set the dytter after an AFF, so it's going off a 5,500'

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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He just pointed to his helmet. When I asked if that's all he used he said yes.
Question. How common is this?

I've known more than one "old time jumper" that didn't wear a visual altimeter. Good, bad, right or wrong, agree or disagree, remember when they learned, many places didn't even give students altimeters until they got up to like 20 or 30 second delays.

Look at many of the professional 4-Way teams. Some wear their visual altimeters on their hip. Do you think they're looking at their own altimeter? I doubt it. If anything, their looking at the altimeter one of their teammates is wearing.

The ol' advise of not becoming "Dytter Dependant" is, in some ways, a theory vs. reality thing in the sport. In theory, folks preach not to become Dytter Dependant, but in reality, many folks quicking do. I'll admit, I look at my wrist mount a whole lot more on the ride up than I do in freefall. In freefall, I'm concentrating on the skydive and will look at others altimeters and/or react to the 1st and 2nd warnings set on my Dytter (5500' and 4500'). Things going particularly badly or whatever, yeah, I'll check my own wristmount, but I'd have to admit this is infrequent. Sometimes too, its just a glance at the ground, but that's usually more of a "hows the spot going thing" if I'm thinking we're hosed. After breakoff, I'm strictly on visual cues, tracking like my life depends on it (because it does), evaluating separation, time and neither Dytter nor wrist mount dependant. Pack opening by 2K... that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

After getting open, dealing with the slider, unstowing the breaks, dealing with traffic, turning towards the DZ, etc. etc., somewhere in there I'll glance at my wrist mount to keep myself honest on where I got saddled. I've also got the oh-shit I'm going to die warning on my Dytter set at 2K to keep me further honest.

[Remster 30]

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How common is this?

I would say that most serious 4way teams I see do not wear visuals.

I dont count myself in that group , but while I do wear one, I pretty much never look at it in freefall: I cant recall trhe last time I did, except when a team mate left ealry on a skydive, and checked my alti to confirm we were still high.

Remster

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I recently bought a VISO. About five jumps later I looked at it in freefall and had a little trouble seeing the display. That's when it occurred to me that I hadn't looked at it once on the previous jumps.

[DougH 270]

I noticed the opositve the other day, I think I look at my altimeter more than I realized.

When I started shooting video I ended up with a lot of video that was... exit, altimeter, altimeter, altimeter, altimeter.

I looked at it way more times than I expected to see, but I normally didn't remember most of the glances. When the reading was important, ie I was nearing break off, I would remember looking at it.

This is with an audible, so I guess that makes me confident that I am not depending on it entirely.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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...When I started shooting video I ended up with a lot of video that was... exit, altimeter, altimeter, altimeter, altimeter...

And good, bad, right, wrong, agree or disagree the reality is no one is ever going to pay you for video (or not for long) if what they get is... "Exit, Altimeter, Formation, Altimeter, Formation, Formation, Altimeter, Formation, Formation, Formation, Altimeter, Altimeter... etc."

[DougH 270]

Good point. I don't do it any more, it was just something I noticed on my first few video jumps.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[skybytch 273]

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but while I do wear one, I pretty much never look at it in freefall

I look at it my visual more in the plane and under canopy than in freefall; until recently I very rarely checked it in freefall. Didn't think much of it until I asked my s/o what I should be working on to be ready for an AFF course (he's done more AFF jumps than I've done jumps). First thing he mentioned was getting back into the habit of looking at my visual in freefall.

So now I'm trying to remember to check it at least a couple times in freefall. It was kind of nice to know exactly when I peeled off the tracking dive that was headed for town instead of the dz a couple weeks ago.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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So now I'm trying to remember to check it at least a couple times in freefall. It was kind of nice to know exactly when I peeled off the tracking dive that was headed for town instead of the dz a couple weeks ago.

Confused... how was it looking at your altimeter told you that you were headed toward town and not towards the DZ? Wasn't it the "looking at town" that told you that??

[Remster 30]

Hey Lisa:

one way I git to check my Alti more often doing AFF was to make it a part of the student body position observation: legs, arch, arms, alti.

Remster

[skybytch 273]

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one way I git to check my Alti more often doing AFF was to make it a part of the student body position observation: legs, arch, arms, alti.

Good point; I'll remember that. But I figure it doesn't hurt to back up the Mark I eyeballs on every skydive with an alti check; perhaps rebuilding the habit now will make doing it on AFF jumps a no-brainer.

I don't want to have to be reminding myself to check the alti while trying to concentrate on what the student is doing.

[darwin143 0]

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>I find that the problem with setting it at a lower altitude than you
> want to break off is that you either get fixated by your alti in an
> attempt to "beat the dytter" or work a bit lower til you hear the
> dytter go off.

That's exactly why I set it lower. If I ever find myself doing one of those two things, I can fix the problem _before_ I end up at 1000 feet with nothing out. Dytters are very easy to get dependent on.

That's why I set mine higher. Each of my warnings are set for about 1000 ft above my breakoff, pull, and hard deck altitudes. For me, the dytter tells me "If you're not already doing so, pay attention to your alti, it's time to go soon!!!" I mostly rely on my internal alarm, which will "go off" a couple hundred feet before my 1st Pro Track alarm. After that, I'm much more aware of my alti and start thinking more about breakoff than the dive/formation.

I've also been told to set the pro track below the altitudes, but I don't want to start being dependent, and wait until those altitudes to act (which would cause me to breakoff and pull lower than I want to).

And sometimes (rarely) I just hear the alarm and start to break off, even though I have another 1000 ft

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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I've also been told to set the pro track below the altitudes, but I don't want to start being dependent, and wait until those altitudes to act (which would cause me to breakoff and pull lower than I want to).

And sometimes (rarely) I just hear the alarm and start to break off, even though I have another 1000 ft Better higher than lower.

Different strokes I guess... 1000 high makes sense to me, although I've never done it that way so it would take serious re-training to remember not to break immediately.

I set it at 4,000 for all RW dives... 4-way that's at breakoff, larger stuff it's 500 or 1000 feet below breakoff. I do it that way on the theory that if I'm not doing 4-way I've got time to look at my alti, and the theory has held (knock on wood). If i'm doing something really big (like a 20-way) I'd set it higher. AFF and coach dives I set it higher (5500 or 5000), but on those dives it's truly a backup... I'd be embarassed to be caught off-guard.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[darwin143 0]

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Different strokes I guess... 1000 high makes sense to me, although I've never done it that way so it would take serious re-training to remember not to break immediately.

Yeah, there was one jump where I went a bit low it went of at 6k, and I turned and tracked. When I looked behind me I saw the other 2 people coming after me! By that time it was the real breakoff, so I just kept tracking away. It was funny.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Hey Lisa:

one way I git to check my Alti more often doing AFF was to make it a part of the student body position observation: legs, arch, arms, alti.

I tend to look at the student's alti rather than my own.

[peregrinerose 0]

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I tend to look at the student's alti rather than my own.

Me too if at all possible. Not all alti's read alike, so I prefer to make theirs the one that counts for the debriefs.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[2shay 0]

they are all tools do not count on any of them to work ALL THE TIME. Use your eyes. Keep in mind I own two and jump them all the time and yes they are nice but not to depend on. Two, check out others in your group as well.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!