My slider is acting cold and distant

[3ringheathen 0]

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Taking the swoop cords off is a little tricky, cause I route the left one under my alti.

I'd reconsider that.
I recommend putting the swoop cords on last so that you can easily remove them. Sooner or later, you'll be glad you did (or sorry that you didn't).
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[Scrumpot 1]

I'm surprised that absolutely nobody has even remotely mentioned this yet, but at only 83 jumps ...what is it you think you are doing with swoop cords in the 1st place? If it is because you are a big guy, and need extra "umph" to try 'n "stay up"; by having swoop cords, ESPECIALLY AT THIS POINT IN YOUR PROGRESSION, you are doing yourself NO FAVORS! What I mean by this is 1st and foremost YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO FLY YOUR BODY. Swoop cords are a "crutch" that is in effect, actually TAKING THAT (opportunity) AWAY FROM YOU!! IMHO you will instead form potentially bad habits that will become just all that much MORE DIFFICULT to break in the future.

My .02 ...GET RID OF THE SWOOP CORD JUMPSUIT ALL TOGETHER, at least at this point in your progression!

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Para-viper 0]

That's just it -- I'm a big guy, and they were a godsend in terms of letting me keep fallrate with all the skinny dudes at my home DZ... but you have a point. I stupidly washed my suit on 'hot' about a month ago and as a result my 'wings' have largely gone away; I've found out that I was indeed using 'em as a crutch, and some coaching would be helpful.

blues
W

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Of course it hurts. The trick is not *minding* that it hurts.
- T.E. Lawrence

[peek 21]

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>Why do you say this? PD designed the Velocity to fly best on a certian length of risers to take advantage of the pendulium effect at that length.

Have you seen that in print anywhere, or do you know the source? That is an interesting piece of info.

[PhreeZone 20]

This was in talking to one of the PD sponsored jumpers. Not the PD team.. but one of their other swoopers he mentioned it to me. Sorry no written source.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[larsrulz 0]

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Swoop cords are a "crutch" that is in effect, actually TAKING THAT (opportunity) AWAY FROM YOU!!

So are weights; what about camera suits; sit suits, etc. Sometimes crutchs are necessary; I certainly hope you don't kick a walker out from under the elderly. When the decision is between using a crutch and being able to jump with others, or not using it and completely hosing a dive for the next 200 jumps, then no one should be faulted (especially at 83 jumps!) for choosing the crutch. There is much learning to be done on how to fly ones body; having swoop cords may not allow you to learn the best possible fall rate control, but it will certainly help with other skills, as being able to jump with other people (not 50' below them or in some cases possibly not even be able to get others to jump with you) is important for that. And with time, one can learn the fall rate along with the other skills and be able to remove the cords.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[larsrulz 0]

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Taking the swoop cords off is a little tricky, cause I route the left one under my alti.

In my case, I route the loop over my thumbs. After opening, I am able to pull my hand back, pull out some extra cord, and then take the cord off my thumb. If this isn't a possiblity, then routing it over the alti strap is probably ideal.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[PhreeZone 20]

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So are weights; what about camera suits; sit suits, etc.

Yep, and you will frequently see them used only in special occasions too. I can sitfly/backfly with RW flyers in my freefly suit if I want to. I've never put weights on unless I know I'm going to really really need them for a one off jump. Camera wings are nice since they will give me pop if I need it, but I have used my freefly suit with out issue some. Sit suits are just a waste IMO.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[larsrulz 0]

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So are weights; what about camera suits; sit suits, etc.

Yep, and you will frequently see them used only in special occasions too. I can sitfly/backfly with RW flyers in my freefly suit if I want to. I've never put weights on unless I know I'm going to really really need them for a one off jump. Camera wings are nice since they will give me pop if I need it, but I have used my freefly suit with out issue some. Sit suits are just a waste IMO.

I agree on sit suits, the only person I know that uses one is Gary Peek, but with what you just said it sounds as if you use your freefly suit as a crutch. Can you do the same in a pair of jeans and a tee-shirt? If so, why use the suit? So if you weighed 20 lbs. less with the same body type, you're saying you wouldn't use weights for RW? Sometimes crutches are necessary. There is a standard freefall rate that people need to fall. If someone with 83 jumps needs to dearch the whole dive just to barely stay at that speed, then how is it a problem for them to use swoop cords so they can relax a bit and actually learn to fly their body? Eventually they will learn how to fly their body without the need to overly dearch, but that comes with experience.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[Scrumpot 1]

The differences and examples you are talking about are between a very experienced skydiver using his TOOLS, and a newbie instead using a CRUTCH (and not an elderly person with a walker either ...which is yet ANOTHER ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MATTER, thank-you-very-much and not germane at all ). My point, or input more precisely is that a true "crutch" (or a newbie using what should be, and is designed instead for a more advanced purpose TOOL as a crutch) IMHO in THIS (and not some just supposition) illustration, may not necessarily be the best idea.

It will ingrain bad habits, and a false reliance that he does not yet himself even understand, and that he will only have to "break" in order to become truly proficient, sooner or later. Putting the "crutches" on now serves him no REAL benefit, and will only make that later IMHO.

There is no substitute for proper technique learning at this stage, and I submit by doing this instead (mis-applying the more properly intended use of swoop cords), this jumper is doing more "harm" than good in the long-haul consideration of his body flight progression. If you are having trouble staying relative to a group, your most effective "fix" is some one-on-one training with a good coach (notice I did not say necessarily "USPA Coach" )

Just my .02 into the situation, based upon my experience and observations anyway.
Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

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shorter risers will :
-set the CG higher
-let the canopy spread less, in length and in span

Is riser length not set to suit the container rather than the canopy?
Are the risers on ALL container made for a 120 the same length?
Are the lines on ALL 120's the same length?

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With shorter risers the "short" comes off the bottom not the top

As the "short" come off the bottom BELOW the V divide between front & rear risers it should not affect anything, other than brake line length, much, if at all otherwise risers would need to be designed to suit the individual and the canopy their intend to use etc.

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[mjosparky 4]

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With shorter risers the "short" comes off the bottom not the top

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As the "short" come off the bottom BELOW the V divide between front & rear risers it should not affect anything, other than brake line length, much, if at all otherwise risers would need to be designed to suit the individual and the canopy their intend to use etc.

Like I have said before, I am not an artist. What I mean by "short" comes off the bottom, is everything on the canopy end of the riser stays the same except the placement of the toggle on the brake.
See attachment.

Riser length is up to the individual. If they are too long, they might not be able to reach the slider, you can still fly and land the canopy. If they are so long you can't reach the toggles then that is another story. Of course you could fly and land using just riser inputs.
Then there is container size. If they are too long they might not lay flat in the pack tray. This could cause a problem during deployment. Maybe. There are many variables to consider when ordering risers. As long as possible is not one of them. jmo

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

Yes. sorry my thinking was off at the time.

I was thinking that all risers had a section where the front & rear risers where stitched together for several inches and that it was this part that was shortened (can't think at the moment where I got this idea from as I KNOW mine seperate just above the '3 ring circus').

As for shorterning the brake lines this may have to be done in order for someone with short arms to be able to carry out a full flare. GET A RIGGER TO ADVISE BEFORE ATTEMPTIN THIS AS IT WILL/MAY ALTER THE TRIM.

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[mjosparky 4]

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Yes. sorry my thinking was off at the time.

I was thinking that all risers had a section where the front & rear risers where stitched together for several inches and that it was this part that was shortened (can't think at the moment where I got this idea from as I KNOW mine seperate just above the '3 ring circus').

As for shorterning the brake lines this may have to be done in order for someone with short arms to be able to carry out a full flare. GET A RIGGER TO ADVISE BEFORE ATTEMPTIN THIS AS IT WILL/MAY ALTER THE TRIM.

You must not have read the whole thread. Changing the length of the risers or the brake setting will not change the trim. The trim is determined by the length of the lines and unless you cut the lines shorter the trim will not change.

Each riser, right and left, is made of one continuous piece of webbing folded at the middle. To make shorter risers you start with a short piece of webbing, they do not cut off longer risers.

As I noted in another thread, maybe you should back off on giving advise until you have a better understanding of gear and freefall techniques, ie getting stable before pulling your reserve. jmo

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,991]

>Is riser length not set to suit the container rather than the canopy?

Riser length is originally determined by the rig manufacturer. However, risers are typically replaced between every 200 to 500 jumps (at least if mfr recommendations are followed) and are often re-ordered from a third party at a different length.

>Are the lines on ALL 120's the same length?

No. Differences in angle of incidence, cathedral, location of cascade (if there is one) and design goals all play a role. I recall Cobalts being offered with two linesets depending on the user's preferences.