canopy choice for night jumps

[fjd 0]

in this month's Parachutist, the incident report gave a lot of details on the recent fatality involving a night jump.

there were many factors cited in the report that have collectively contributed to the unfortunate outcome. one of the factors cited was what it called an aggressive choice of canopy: Velocity 97 loaded at 2.1 to 1.

what have been your choice of canopies for your night jumps?

and what are some of thoughts out there regarding type of canopy, wing loading, own rig vs. rental, etc., etc.

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[flyinfree 0]

The same one you jumped all day before the night jump...

[vibeke 0]

Makes good sense to go with the canopy you usually fly, as your visual orientation becomes reduced in the darkness and you will very much need to go with experience!

However if I know of some skilled canopy pilots who choose a bigger squarefeet canopy for nightjumps, than what they usually fly!

Many HP eliptical canopys need the speed for the flare.
And you can (almost) always land a larger canopy. Slower speeds equals more reaction time

A nightjump is not about the landing - its the scenery in free fall and flying the canopy watching the lights.

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[JumpRu 14]

I've done night jumps at 1.3 WL and it was not pretty :), next time I will do them I’ll take something bigger. Just because landing sub 100 canopy with 2.X WL at night can be done does not mean this is a good idea. What if you land out?

[Kris 0]

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Many HP eliptical canopys need the speed for the flare.

Not true. If one can't land a heavily loaded canopy (and I include, as an example, a 2.2:1 or heavier crossbraced) straight-in with no riser input, then they need to work on their tehnique or go back to a bigger canopy.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[cvfd1399 0]

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A nightjump is not about the landing

Every jump is about the landing, it is what decides life and death. I understand your statement about the pretty lights tho.

[craddock 0]

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what have been your choice of canopies for your night jumps?

85 sq ft thru 107 sq. ft.

Jump with what you are comfortable/competent. Some will say jump with what you normally jump, but too many people are not(or should not) comfortable with their current canopy.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[fjd 0]

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A nightjump is not about the landing - its the scenery in free fall and flying the canopy watching the lights.

i agree with you about the scenery, but i would also like to land in one piece, even if not gracefully.

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[pilotdave 0]

The day of my second ever night jump, I was demoing a spectre 135. My normal canopy was a PD150. I'd been jumping the spectre all day though, and decided I'd be safer using it for the night jump than my own canopy even though it was a lot faster (fastest canopy I'd flown, no wind day) and I had a lot less experience with it. The flare was very different, and I had been working on getting the timing right all day (maybe the day before too...cant remember). It was also a bit easier to land than my own canopy, and my accuracy with it during the day was pretty good.

Worked out fine. Stood up the landing. Wasn't my best landing of the demo but wasn't my worst either.

I eventually bought a sabre2 135. Still have the PD150, but I'm too scared to jump it now... don't think I remember how to land it.
Dave

[fjd 0]

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I've done night jumps at 1.3 WL and it was not pretty :), next time I will do them I’ll take something bigger. Just because landing sub 100 canopy with 2.X WL at night can be done does not mean this is a good idea. What if you land out?

i would tend to agree with you on this point. going with a bit bigger canopy than usual should not hurt, unless you are already jumping a lightly loaded canopy.

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[billvon 2,989]

Large.

Being current is all well and good, but if you fly your VX85 into a powerline during an off-field landing, all the skill in the world won't do you any good - the only thing that _will_ do you any good is a lower forward speed and the ability to recover from upsets, both of which mean a larger canopy.

Remember, it's not the perfect landing you choose the canopy for, it's the dodgy landing - the off-field landing, the last-minute-dodge landing, the uneven terrain downwind landing. And jumping at night makes all those things much more likely.

[Canuck 0]

First, let's define a night jump. There is a huge difference between catching the last load that never should have taken off because it was already twighlight as you were gearing up, and a two in the morning, no moon, night jump.

The first I'll still do with my Velocity at 2.1, the latter I quit doing when I got my Crossfire at 1.8. I would probably still do night hop-n-pops, but the fun of a night jump is all in the freefall.

It's the off DZ landings that scare me, especially up here in the boonies where off the DZ means no lights at all.

Too bad. I use to do a ton of them each year when I was jumping 150+ canopies and really enjoyed them. Trade offs I guess.

Canuck

[fjd 0]

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Large.

Being current is all well and good, but if you fly your VX85 into a powerline during an off-field landing, all the skill in the world won't do you any good - the only thing that _will_ do you any good is a lower forward speed and the ability to recover from upsets, both of which mean a larger canopy.

Remember, it's not the perfect landing you choose the canopy for, it's the dodgy landing - the off-field landing, the last-minute-dodge landing, the uneven terrain downwind landing. And jumping at night makes all those things much more likely.

couldn't agree with you more.

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[fjd 0]

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First, let's define a night jump. There is a huge difference between catching the last load that never should have taken off because it was already twighlight as you were gearing up, and a two in the morning, no moon, night jump.

The first I'll still do with my Velocity at 2.1, the latter I quit doing when I got my Crossfire at 1.8. I would probably still do night hop-n-pops, but the fun of a night jump is all in the freefall.

It's the off DZ landings that scare me, especially up here in the boonies where off the DZ means no lights at all.

Too bad. I use to do a ton of them each year when I was jumping 150+ canopies and really enjoyed them. Trade offs I guess.

Canuck

i was referring to the latter, a 'pre-planned' night jump.

so would you borrow a larger 150+ canopy to do it?

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[AMax 0]

[Canuck 0]

Sure I'd borrow larger gear for night jumps. The thought of jumping gear that I'm not current on at night really doesn't bother me. Each year I do a handful of jumps on various sized canopies without problems - upsizing is always easy.

One other problem though - the DZ I jump at now doesn't do them becuase they operate off of an unlit grass strip that runs down a hill! It seems that Cesna pilots don't like trying to land in those conditions either!

Canuck

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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there were many factors cited in the report that have collectively contributed to the unfortunate outcome. one of the factors cited was what it called an aggressive choice of canopy: Velocity 97 loaded at 2.1 to 1.

Wasn't this the report of the intoxicated guy who hooked too low on a night jump? Even if one of the factors was a fast canopy, I think a much more pertinent factor would be intoxication.

As far as night jumps, I haven't gotten up the guts to do them yet. I figure I still have quite a few jumps before I can apply for a D license, so why rush it? I do plan to get them done before downsizing anymore, tho.

... Also want to add that I would not feel terribly comfortable borrowing a larger canopy than i'm used to unless I have a good day of jumping it first. I, unlike many on here, don't get the chance to fly different canopies everyday and I have more confidence on a canopy i'm current on in a situation i'm not used to (night jumps).

-A

[winsor 236]

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The same one you jumped all day before the night jump...

Not a chance. I'll jump one of my crossbraced canopies at 2:1 all day long, but when the sun goes down I'm putting the biggest, most docile thing I can find over head.

If you have an emergency exit at night, you may not land somewhere with lights or with sufficient runway to plane out a Class V canopy.

I can think of rather a few things with which I don't mind dealing when there is sufficient light, but can do without in the dark. A high performance canopy is one of them.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[mjosparky 4]

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Many HP eliptical canopys need the speed for the flare.

Not true. If one can't land a heavily loaded canopy (and I include, as an example, a 2.2:1 or heavier crossbraced) straight-in with no riser input, then they need to work on their tehnique or go back to a bigger canopy.

No one said anything about riser landings. I think Vibeke meant, speed is needed for a better flare and a flare can be done with toggles if I remember right.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[sundevil777 102]

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Many HP eliptical canopys need the speed for the flare.

Not true. If one can't land a heavily loaded canopy (and I include, as an example, a 2.2:1 or heavier crossbraced) straight-in with no riser input, then they need to work on their tehnique or go back to a bigger canopy.

No one said anything about riser landings. I think Vibeke meant, speed is needed for a better flare and a flare can be done with toggles if I remember right.

Sparky

By "riser input", I think he meant using risers for extra speed, not for the flare.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[diablopilot 2]

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A nightjump is not about the landing

I bed to differ, that's what it's ALL about for me.....

Edit to add: I will and do jump any of the canopies I own in day or night conditions.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[VectorBoy 0]

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A nightjump is not about the landing

I bed to differ, that's what it's ALL about for me.....

Edit to add: I will and do jump any of the canopies I own in day or night conditions.

I've seen it! I've got the video too.

[VectorBoy 0]

Thats for him.

With that being said I would also say one that opens predictable for you.

One that you feel comfortable landing when not all things are stacked in your favor and obviously in low light conditions.

And the one that is easy to find after you cut it away in the dark when most of your lost canopy finding assist foundation is a six pack or two behind the powercurve.

[fjd 0]

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Sure I'd borrow larger gear for night jumps. The thought of jumping gear that I'm not current on at night really doesn't bother me. Each year I do a handful of jumps on various sized canopies without problems - upsizing is always easy.

right on!

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[fjd 0]

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Wasn't this the report of the intoxicated guy who hooked too low on a night jump? Even if one of the factors was a fast canopy, I think a much more pertinent factor would be intoxication.

i agree with you. if one were to weigh all the contributing factors, the intoxication would have the most weight. but the choice of canopy nonetheless would be up there as well.

if it were a lightly loaded canopy, would it have made a difference? could you make an arguement that the incident report could have been for a couple of broken femurs rather than a fatality? i think that is a distinct possibility.

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