Ground Launch off Building

[northcave 0]

Any one ever ground launched off a building or is that just bloody stupid?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Any one ever ground launched off a building or is that just bloody stupid?

Are the surrounding of a building usually turbulent? Do you like to fly closed proximity with a building in turbulent conditions?

[darkwing 5]

that's really a question fro BASE jumpers. Their canopies are different from skydiving canopies, and for good reasons.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[rhys 0]

They did it in the movie "cutaway" but those cats had no sence. They left thier dead friend on pea pit while they discussed their plans for the next nationals.

are you planning a robbery?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[northcave 0]

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are you planning a robbery?

yes

[skypuppy 1]

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They did it in the movie "cutaway" but those cats had no sence. They left thier dead friend on pea pit while they discussed their plans for the next nationals.

So? He was dead already. What would you expect them to do? (It was the nationals)

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Any one ever ground launched off a building or is that just bloody stupid?

It’s not stupid if it works, you get video and then you are a hero to all the crazy “you got to see this” people and who knows what movie you will make it into. And then it’s unbelievably stupid if someone dies while trying it.

Several things to keep in mind:

1) I would never try a low to no wind launch from a building. I would only try it with moderate to high winds using the appropriate canopy selection based on the winds and the height of the building. Most likely not a small swooping canopy and most likely not a huge BASE canopy. Something in between like a moderately sized 7 cell canopy (it could be a small BASE canopy or it could be something like a Spectre which are actually decent GL canopies).

2) I would want at least a 30 story building (preferably much higher) and I don’t know how many 30 story buildings you will find that are standing on their own. Most buildings have other buildings surrounding them and since I wouldn’t launch in low to no wind you are all of a sudden dealing with turbulence between the buildings and we know how dicey canopy flight can be in turbulence.

3) Is the building something you can just run off of, or is there some sort of 1-3 foot high ledge? I haven't jumped off of very many buildings, but the ones I have been on have a ledge and running off of them just does not seem to be an option.

I am no authority on the subject, but in the past I have had my eyes on launching from several cliffs (a 400 footer in Moab UT and 1800 footer in BC). I do know people have Ground Launched off of cliffs before, but buildings? Man you have to have the biggest set of ####s to put your life on the line. I’ve watched someone do a roll over with a swooping canopy off of the bridge in Idaho thinking "cool can I try that next". But after the roll over which took forever to get that canopy to start flying, my mind set was, no maybe I don’t want to try it.

In summary, it’s not stupid if it works and unbelievably stupid if someone dies trying it.
Remember how fast an object can get burned when a death occurs on it.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kingbunky 3]

it worked in 'terminal velocity' as well. that's two separate, well documented instances of success. i say go for it.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[Jazzthieve 0]

That was the movie "Drop Zone" I think not the other one. According to that movie it even is possible with a tandem .

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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That was the movie "Drop Zone" I think not the other one. According to that movie it even is possible with a tandem .

Jim Slaton has done many tandem ground launches. Just not off of any buildings.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[quade 4]

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They did it in the movie "cutaway" but those cats had no sence. They left thier dead friend on pea pit while they discussed their plans for the next nationals.

"IT'S BETTER THAN WINNING A SILVER MEDAL!"

I have a love/hate relationship with that movie. How can a movie both simultaneously be so filled with truth and bullshit?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[tdog 0]

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that's really a question fro BASE jumpers. Their canopies are different from skydiving canopies, and for good reasons.

I have flown paragliders (Gin Bolero), BASE canopies (Mojo, Dagger, Troll), and skydiving canopies (Katana, Crossfire 2, Diablo, Sabre, Spectre, Stiletto, Pilot, Navigator, etc)...

I tend to disagree with your comment, if you are truly talking about ground launching (inflating before leaving the object/ground). But I have been known to be wrong a lot before, so can you explain why you believe BASE canopies would be a tool to ground launch with, on a complicated launch???

(I am just thinking the extra weight of the reinforcements, tail pockets, heavy lines, etc - would make it harder to inflate and keep overhead while running. If you look at shape, lines, and fabric selection, a BASE canopy is the opposite of a Paraglider, which is designed for ground launching. Opposite for a reason????)

Now doing any launch that involves a bit of freefall - I agree. But that is not ground launching, that is BASE jumpn!

[kingbunky 3]

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That was the movie "Drop Zone" I think not the other one. According to that movie it even is possible with a tandem .

in terminal velocity, there was the scene where charlie sheen jumped into the power station, landed in the chimney, cut away his main, ran around looking for the micro-disk, then got chased onto the roof by bad guys. he popped his reserve and kited it off the roof.

if that didn't happen, then i thought it up and hereby copyright the idea.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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But I have been known to be wrong a lot before, so can you explain why you believe BASE canopies would be a tool to ground launch with, on a complicated launch?

Hey Travis it's six of one, half a dozen of another. Would I want to ground launch my FLiK 293 or Rock Dragon 303 off of a building? No to me that doesn't sound like I am using the right tool. But I might try it with a 176 or even as big as a 222 (keeping in mind that the slider, bridle and pilot cute have been removed from the canopy). Remember we are talking about launching in the urban jungle with all the obstacles and landing hazards that come with that playground. Sinking it in could be the difference between obscure success and high profile negative national news. I personally (I am no expert on this topic) don't believe the added weight of the tail pocket and larger lines are as much of an influencing factor as the ability to sink it in on a tight LZ. No I think a small BASE canopy could be the ideal tool to ground launch off of a building. Of course I doubt you will see me doing it anytime soon. There is no way in hell I would do a low to no wind ground launch off of a building and flying a canopy in turbulence in the urban jungle doesn't sound that good either. You need the right building (enough height to get the wing flying, located away from other buildings but with strong enough head wind conditions, the ability to run off with no ledge, and a good LZ etc, etc, etc) in order to pull off this stunt.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[tdog 0]

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Remember we are talking about launching in the urban jungle with all the obstacles and landing hazards that come with that playground.

Hmmm....

I have about 100-150ish landings on a paraglider, 800ish on a skydiving canopy, and 40 some odd on BASE canopies (from objects and planes).

I just remember, even in some winds on landings, the BASE canopy not wanting to kite.

What is your impression of the kite-ability of a BASE canopy?

(Note - this is probably very canopy specific. I can tell you that two fully elliptical skydiving canopies behave completely different when trying to "build a wall" then inflate - from personal experience.)

And - to the urban jungle... Half is the tool, the other half is the pilot's skill at using that tool.

In 2001, when I had about 70 paraglider flights, I went up on a paraglider tandem off a rather well known ski resort in Colorado. (Different world, who would think of a tandem to learn skydiving when you are trying to advance past your "B" licence?)

I was on the controls the entire time, the instructor was along to give advice and train me on drills. Landing he definitely helped. It was into a field the same size as a pea pit at the average DZ. Side 1 = building, side 2 = parking lot with cars, side 3 = ditch and city road with trees in the center and signs, side 4 = I70 (4 lane highway).

8 years later I can still tell you the color of the semi truck, and the color of the shirt of the driver of the semi truck, that honked at us as we overflew the highway at 50 feet on final. I also can tell you what the turbulence from a semitruck feels like.

Anyway - the point being - BASE canopies are not the only canopies that can land in tight spots (although I agree something designed to sink might be the best).

So, the question to you becomes, have you ever built a wall, reverse or forward inflated, and launched or kited, a BASE canopy? I never have, and wonder how well it would work.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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have you ever built a wall, reverse or forward inflated, and launched or kited, a BASE canopy? I never have, and wonder how well it would work.

I have reverse kited my BASE canopy and it was not any easy thing to do and it was rather squirrelly. But it is a 293 and I'm sure a 176 would perform much different. Is a BASE canopy the best tool for ground launching? ROFLMAO ... of course not. The GLX is designed and engineered for ground launching and one would would think that this would mostly likely be the best tool assuming you did not need to land in a tight landing area. But if the landing area is tight, should you even be considering ground launching off of the building.

I would say very few people in this world should be considering such a stunt. You need to be a damn good and current canopy pilot. You need to be a damn good and current ground launcher. You need to be damn good and current at launching off of cliffs first. You need to be damn good and current building BASE jumper and well you better have above average judgement and you need to be somewhat crazy. I know I have the crazy part going for me, but I am not so sure about the rest.

Ground Launching off of THE RIGHT building in THE RIGHT conditions is totally doable.
But it is not something a sane person would do.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[jtval 0]

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They did it in the movie "cutaway" but those cats had no sence. They left thier dead friend on pea pit while they discussed their plans for the next nationals.

"IT'S BETTER THAN WINNING A SILVER MEDAL!"

I have a love/hate relationship with that movie. How can a movie both simultaneously be so filled with truth and bullshit?

But it did have the best qoutable lines of any skydive movie to date.

He's gone NO LIFT.
It had a lot of hotties...and that one chick was incredibly hot.
I wished they would have stolen a line from fast and the furious..."I live my life a 1/4 mile 10000ft at a time"

My photos

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[docjohn 0]

I heard that the water tower at Couch Freaks is a great launching point. Its been done. That's what med-evac is for.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[pchapman 279]

CanuckInUSA had a good and detailed reply.

I'm not current in paragliding, but in that sport cliff launches are generally considered to be dangerous and not normally done. The sharp corner tends to cause turbulence and odd wind gradients, and the sharp corner also means a launch is more of an all-or-nothing deal than the usual launch down a slope.

If someone were launching off a building, I'd suggest they should to be really comfortable kiting their particular canopy in turbulent conditions, whether for forward or reverse inflations (facing back at the canopy to see it better while inflating it). It should be easier for a low aspect ratio skydiving or BASE canopy compared to a high aspect ratio paraglider. Being really familiar with ground launching the canopy off other slopes too, would help in gaining that split second awareness of what the canopy is doing and how to control it. Kiting and launching canopies, and dealing with different winds, is a real skill, that takes time to acquire.

Still, who knows, maybe one doesn't need all that kind of practice to accomplish a successful building launch. I just don't know.

[billvon 3,072]

>maybe one doesn't need all that kind of practice to accomplish a
>successful building launch.

I think you need a LOT.

I've never launched from a building, but I have launched from a few cliffs. They were on slopes (fortunately) because I didn't know what I was doing, and so the damage was just some bruises and scrapes.

The biggest problem (I've found) is that a paraglider/canopy launch requires the canopy be flying and in its trim position BEFORE your feet get off the ground. During most slope launches you get the wing over your head, start running, and then spend a bit of time getting the wing _forward_ because that's how it will fly once you're in the air. On a paraglider you can do this by pushing on front risers a bit. Until then, you're towing this big canopy behind you, and it's generating lift, but it can't fly on its own.

Anyway, I tried launching off a cliff (small, 3-4 feet, on a slope.) Started running, got the wing up, stepped off - and swung right back into the cliff as the wing pulled me back. To look at it another way, the wing was trying to get in 'front' of me to flying position, and the reaction drove me backwards. You have to have that wing forward before you ever step off, and that's something that takes a lot of practice.

(Disclaimer - I am no expert; I have perhaps 40 ground launches and 30-40 paraglider flights.)

[pchapman 279]

Billvon's reply gives a perfect example of what I was writing about -- a simple looking thing to do (a launch with just a little 4 ft drop) turned out not to be so simple. So to have a high chance of success with no scary moments, someone doing a building launch should be very comfortable with paragliding or ground launches. Otherwise they may not instinctively recognize the precise position, orientation, forward speed, pitch rate, lift, drag, etc. of the canopy at the moment of deciding to go over the edge...

Just my opinion.