mdrejhon 8 #1 August 30, 2007 Cypres2 4-year maintenance time. I've got two scenarios. 1. Ship out my Cypres2 (more expensive international shipping from Canada) for maintenance for its 4-year maintenance and probably new battery. About $400 including all shipping/UPS customs brokerage costs. Maybe $300 if I try to skimp a bit, or try to workaround the brokerage costs. 2. Sell Cypres2 as-is and buy Vigil2. There's still 8 years left on my Cypres2 and it's a Cypres2, so it still commands a good premium. Price difference ends up being the same as the 4-year maintenance. The difference in price is roughly equal to sending a Cypres2 from Canada (I'd only pay $400 more for a Vigil2) Apparently this will yield roughly the same cost to me. What to do. Tough choice, tough choice. Considering this year has been financially difficult earlier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #2 August 30, 2007 Do they have a shipping outlet (UPS-like store where you could pick it up from) down in Odensburg (sp?), NY? They have them in WA state that alot of Vancouver residents use to avoid the outrageous brokerage fees. You could drive down there, send it out, and pick it up. Avoid brokerage costs that way - and alot cheaper to ship (in country). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #3 August 30, 2007 Excellent idea in a way -- I am due in the U.S. in October, and that's still within the 6 month grace period I am currently in. I may do your suggestion. On the other hand... with my Cypres2 due for maintenance soon, I'm doomed to a $300-$400 loss: Question is, which route will put me better-off long term? I know Vigil had its teething pains early on, but Vigil 2 sounds like a more mature version of Vigil, much like Cypres 2 is a more mature version of Cypres 1. Using pretty much the same time-tested software, with minor tweaks. I'm ready to trust Vigil now, but on the other hand, Cypres definitely has its backers - with 15 years of successful operation. Bottom line, I'm tempted to go Vigil 2 since I won't have to retire the AAD in 8 years and maintenance will likely be cheaper since batteries won't cost about $100 CDN. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #4 August 30, 2007 I guess the Vigil vs CYPRES debate folk can chime in on it. Me, I still use a CYPRES '1' - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Early adoption of 'mission critical' components has never been a big appeal to me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #5 August 30, 2007 I was going to say the same thing. 5 years since the last bug would be about right for me. You want your AAD to be a fail-safe system; when it fails (which every system might), you want it to fail in the direction of not doing anything. That's safer than failing by opening when you don't expect it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 August 30, 2007 Quote5 years since the last bug would be about right for me I'd g o3 years after release of a version before I'd adopt. Plenty of teething room in there to have the issues resolved. I don't like that the Vigil2 still does not resolve the pressurised aircraft issue like on the C-130's and the Perris Jet accourding to news out of PIA this year. The Vigil3 is to address that when ever its released.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #7 August 30, 2007 QuoteI'm tempted to go Vigil 2 since I won't have to retire the AAD in 8 years There is no guarantee of that. Airtec didn't put the 12 year service life on Cypres' until after they'd been available for a number of years. The same could very well occur with the Vigil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marinho 0 #8 August 30, 2007 Quote 1. Ship out my Cypres2 (more expensive international shipping from Canada) for maintenance for its 4-year maintenance and probably new battery. Quote Hi, Please note that there is no batteries replacement charges on cypres2! You only pay $160.00 plus shipping! Blue skies,Gus Marinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #9 August 30, 2007 QuoteCypres2 4-year maintenance time. I've got two scenarios. 1. Ship out my Cypres2 (more expensive international shipping from Canada) for maintenance for its 4-year maintenance and probably new battery. About $400 including all shipping/UPS customs brokerage costs. The battery is not a separate cost-item for the Cypres 2. The four year maintenance is $160. SSK will receive your Cypres freight-collect ($30) and ship it back for something similar for a total more like $220. You might go to the website and check out the documents on shipping the Cypres to/from Canada: http://www.cypres-usa.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Morrison79 0 #10 August 30, 2007 Shipping is not going to cost $300 or $400 like you stated. Your only shipping from canada to Ohio. You are probably looking at less than $50 for shipping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #11 August 30, 2007 QuoteShipping is not going to cost $300 or $400 like you stated. Your only shipping from canada to Ohio. You are probably looking at less than $50 for shippingRead my post again. It's obvious I'm talking about total costs: Shipping, maintenance, customs/brokerage charges (often a problem when using Airtec's preferred courier, United Parcel Service), etc. One Canadian paid $400 total, another Canadian $310 total... A rigger quoted it'd probably cost $300 total including shipping. Those could have been Cypres1 totals with battery replacements. (+$90 USD or so). I'll find out. Though some had to pay customs brokerage fees during warranty/repair shipments (a pain when that happens when you're only sending something in for repairs or maintenance) However, I do see there's a way to sign a waiver to allow me to ship via a different cheaper method (freight, postal service, etc). Those would take longer, but I'm willing to jump without the Cypres for a while (when not doing bigways). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #12 August 30, 2007 QuoteQuote5 years since the last bug would be about right for me I'd g o3 years after release of a version before I'd adopt. Plenty of teething room in there to have the issues resolved. I don't like that the Vigil2 still does not resolve the pressurised aircraft issue like on the C-130's and the Perris Jet accourding to news out of PIA this year. The Vigil3 is to address that when ever its released.Good points QuoteThere is no guarantee of that. Airtec didn't put the 12 year service life on Cypres' until after they'd been available for a number of years. The same could very well occur with the Vigil.And another good point too. Some are saying to go Vigil 2, and some are saying to stay with my Cypres 2, including the above reasons. Compelling arguments from both sides. Will probably come to a decision next week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #13 August 30, 2007 Dude, nobody is going to want an expired Cypres. If you want to sell it, get the 4 year done, then add $160 to your asking price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cocheese 0 #14 August 30, 2007 Selling stuff has it's problems. So does buying new stuff. Stick with what you have if times are tough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyberdyber 0 #15 August 30, 2007 Cypres is the most reliable piece of gear ever developed for skydivers. Stick with it. Vigil has had multiple complaints about misfires and still claim in public they have no problem. Ours fired on an AFF, on video, at over 3,500 feet. They replaced it with a new one claiming that they had a parts supplier problem. When you a selling a last line of defense, you should test until it's foolproof, then sell it to the public. Not let the public be your test-bed. http://www.skydiveatlanta.com http://www.musiccityskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites karenmeal 0 #16 August 30, 2007 Vigil has had too many problems that have taken them too long to address (or they have completely failed to address), thus comprising the safety of all users of the Vigil. I'm not even talking about misfires - although that is a HUGE issue! I'm talking about the cutter doing damage to reserve closing loops and increasing the users chance of having a premature because their closing loop was worn out by the cracked plastic inside the cutter. Personally, I would stick with the ol' cypres. It's not even a money question to me. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #17 August 30, 2007 Quote Personally, I would stick with the ol' cypres. It's not even a money question to me. Agreed. If you already own the best product on the market, why would you sell it to go with something else? Personally, the "no maintenance" thing with the vigils is a load of crap to me. I don't know many things that can keep working that long w/o some sort of problem. I would rather have the factory tell me that problem exists rather than find out when it is too late. (Though I recognize that is always a possibility, just less likely with regular service checks)~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #18 August 30, 2007 Quote Vigil has had too many problems that have taken them too long to address (or they have completely failed to address), thus comprising the safety of all users of the Vigil. Sure, and someone had to die for Airtec GmbH start dealing with a well known problem of their design..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #19 August 30, 2007 $crew brokerage fee$$! If you give UPS half a chance, they will bend you over and a$$-rape you over customs brokerage fe$$! Far less hassle to trust Canada Post and the United States Postal Service for cross-border shipping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Armour666 0 #20 August 30, 2007 They have a deal with UPS for shipping and brokerage as it is being returned to you there is not the usual duty and other crap the UPS charges the big $$ for on regular shipments. Cost me $36 Canadian a year ago for shipping after exchange rate. I normally avoid UPS for shipping to Canada as you have knowledge of is they gouge you for brokerage I only paied duty on the batery as it was a Cypres 1 sent for service From SSK http://www.cypres-usa.com/Cypsrv20050108.pdf When sending from Canada, we suggest United Parcel Service. We have developed a method to ship your CYPRES to SSK “Freight Collect” (see www.CYPRES-USA.com - UPS will bill SSK’s importer account, the cost will be added to your invoice). Recent problems with the US Postal Service / Canada Post have led us to negotiate discounted rates with UPS for Expedited / Express shipping costs to and from SSK (including insurance, approx. $30.00 US) and we pass the savings on to you! Note: shipping, insurance, and routine brokerage fees are included in this amount, you should only have to pay duty and taxes on the cost of the “repairs” (service and parts). GST, and PST, if applicable in your province, will be billed to you separately by UPS, usually after the delivery of your CYPRES. If you elect to use Canada Post to ship to SSK, Purolator and Xpresspost-USA allow some form of tracking and insurance coverage. However, our policy is to return via UPS Express (Refer to January 8, 2005 Canadian customer letter). When your CYPRES is returned, your country’s duty and tax laws will apply to the cost of “repairs” (service and parts). These charges may be billed to you before or after the return of your CYPRES.SO this one time at band camp..... "Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #21 August 30, 2007 Do tell, what does that have to do with vigil's apparent current inability to source components that aren't defective?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chris-Ottawa 0 #22 August 30, 2007 Hey Mark, Been a long time since I've seen you out jumping...guess you're at Gan all the time. Personal experience, last year: Bought a rig from the US, including 4 year old cypress in need of maintenance. Paid $500 in taxes because it was sent at full value for everything. (Damn)... Anyways, I sent the cypress away using the instructions for Canada on their website. I was billed a total of $360 including it's first 4 year, battery, shipping and taxes on the "repairs". This was last year when the dollar was around .80cents. The exchange is to your benefit right now, and it's not going to be as bad as you think. Also, if you decide to sell, do you think someone is going to pay full value that SSK's website says it's worth? I doubt it, but maybe. I bet you're also not including the taxes on the new Vigil, as well as the duty/taxes that you'll still have to pay to get it into Canada. You WILL pay more to get the Vigil unless you're getting used. I wish I had a Cypress2, but I've still got 7 years on my Cypress1. I say...keep the Cypress 2 man... Have fun at the Otter Boogie...I'm off to Barrie for 4 days! Later"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #23 August 30, 2007 QuoteSure, and someone had to die for Airtec GmbH start dealing with a well known problem of their design..... If you're referring to the incident where a Cypres fired mid-swoop, that was not a "problem of their design." The Cypres was designed LONG before anybody was exceeding activation speeds under canopy. People who knowingly exceed activation speeds under canopy - and really, if we're gonna have one in our rig we should know what those speeds are - are taking on additional risk for themselves. Kind of like if you overload a reserve and it blows up on opening. Not really the manufacturers problem - you're the one who chose to exceed the limits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #24 August 30, 2007 QuoteIf you're referring to the incident where a Cypres fired mid-swoop, that was not a "problem of their design." The Cypres was designed LONG before anybody was exceeding activation speeds under canopy. People who knowingly exceed activation speeds under canopy - and really, if we're gonna have one in our rig we should know what those speeds are - are taking on additional risk for themselves. As long as remember manufacturer was denying even that could happen..... until someone has died.... QuoteKind of like if you overload a reserve and it blows up on opening. Not really the manufacturers problem - you're the one who chose to exceed the limits. They were keep on telling that you are not able to reach those speeds under canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,070 #25 August 30, 2007 >As long as remember manufacturer was denying even that could happen..... From Kai's letter to Skydiving Magazine, 2003: "According to our current knowledge base, it is very unlikely that a skydiver will reach the necessary (vertical) speed for a CYPRES activation after the setup for a high performance landing. This does not mean that something like this may never happen in the future." So they came out and said that it might happen in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
DrewEckhardt 0 #9 August 30, 2007 QuoteCypres2 4-year maintenance time. I've got two scenarios. 1. Ship out my Cypres2 (more expensive international shipping from Canada) for maintenance for its 4-year maintenance and probably new battery. About $400 including all shipping/UPS customs brokerage costs. The battery is not a separate cost-item for the Cypres 2. The four year maintenance is $160. SSK will receive your Cypres freight-collect ($30) and ship it back for something similar for a total more like $220. You might go to the website and check out the documents on shipping the Cypres to/from Canada: http://www.cypres-usa.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morrison79 0 #10 August 30, 2007 Shipping is not going to cost $300 or $400 like you stated. Your only shipping from canada to Ohio. You are probably looking at less than $50 for shipping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #11 August 30, 2007 QuoteShipping is not going to cost $300 or $400 like you stated. Your only shipping from canada to Ohio. You are probably looking at less than $50 for shippingRead my post again. It's obvious I'm talking about total costs: Shipping, maintenance, customs/brokerage charges (often a problem when using Airtec's preferred courier, United Parcel Service), etc. One Canadian paid $400 total, another Canadian $310 total... A rigger quoted it'd probably cost $300 total including shipping. Those could have been Cypres1 totals with battery replacements. (+$90 USD or so). I'll find out. Though some had to pay customs brokerage fees during warranty/repair shipments (a pain when that happens when you're only sending something in for repairs or maintenance) However, I do see there's a way to sign a waiver to allow me to ship via a different cheaper method (freight, postal service, etc). Those would take longer, but I'm willing to jump without the Cypres for a while (when not doing bigways). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #12 August 30, 2007 QuoteQuote5 years since the last bug would be about right for me I'd g o3 years after release of a version before I'd adopt. Plenty of teething room in there to have the issues resolved. I don't like that the Vigil2 still does not resolve the pressurised aircraft issue like on the C-130's and the Perris Jet accourding to news out of PIA this year. The Vigil3 is to address that when ever its released.Good points QuoteThere is no guarantee of that. Airtec didn't put the 12 year service life on Cypres' until after they'd been available for a number of years. The same could very well occur with the Vigil.And another good point too. Some are saying to go Vigil 2, and some are saying to stay with my Cypres 2, including the above reasons. Compelling arguments from both sides. Will probably come to a decision next week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #13 August 30, 2007 Dude, nobody is going to want an expired Cypres. If you want to sell it, get the 4 year done, then add $160 to your asking price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #14 August 30, 2007 Selling stuff has it's problems. So does buying new stuff. Stick with what you have if times are tough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyberdyber 0 #15 August 30, 2007 Cypres is the most reliable piece of gear ever developed for skydivers. Stick with it. Vigil has had multiple complaints about misfires and still claim in public they have no problem. Ours fired on an AFF, on video, at over 3,500 feet. They replaced it with a new one claiming that they had a parts supplier problem. When you a selling a last line of defense, you should test until it's foolproof, then sell it to the public. Not let the public be your test-bed. http://www.skydiveatlanta.com http://www.musiccityskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #16 August 30, 2007 Vigil has had too many problems that have taken them too long to address (or they have completely failed to address), thus comprising the safety of all users of the Vigil. I'm not even talking about misfires - although that is a HUGE issue! I'm talking about the cutter doing damage to reserve closing loops and increasing the users chance of having a premature because their closing loop was worn out by the cracked plastic inside the cutter. Personally, I would stick with the ol' cypres. It's not even a money question to me. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #17 August 30, 2007 Quote Personally, I would stick with the ol' cypres. It's not even a money question to me. Agreed. If you already own the best product on the market, why would you sell it to go with something else? Personally, the "no maintenance" thing with the vigils is a load of crap to me. I don't know many things that can keep working that long w/o some sort of problem. I would rather have the factory tell me that problem exists rather than find out when it is too late. (Though I recognize that is always a possibility, just less likely with regular service checks)~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #18 August 30, 2007 Quote Vigil has had too many problems that have taken them too long to address (or they have completely failed to address), thus comprising the safety of all users of the Vigil. Sure, and someone had to die for Airtec GmbH start dealing with a well known problem of their design..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #19 August 30, 2007 $crew brokerage fee$$! If you give UPS half a chance, they will bend you over and a$$-rape you over customs brokerage fe$$! Far less hassle to trust Canada Post and the United States Postal Service for cross-border shipping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Armour666 0 #20 August 30, 2007 They have a deal with UPS for shipping and brokerage as it is being returned to you there is not the usual duty and other crap the UPS charges the big $$ for on regular shipments. Cost me $36 Canadian a year ago for shipping after exchange rate. I normally avoid UPS for shipping to Canada as you have knowledge of is they gouge you for brokerage I only paied duty on the batery as it was a Cypres 1 sent for service From SSK http://www.cypres-usa.com/Cypsrv20050108.pdf When sending from Canada, we suggest United Parcel Service. We have developed a method to ship your CYPRES to SSK “Freight Collect” (see www.CYPRES-USA.com - UPS will bill SSK’s importer account, the cost will be added to your invoice). Recent problems with the US Postal Service / Canada Post have led us to negotiate discounted rates with UPS for Expedited / Express shipping costs to and from SSK (including insurance, approx. $30.00 US) and we pass the savings on to you! Note: shipping, insurance, and routine brokerage fees are included in this amount, you should only have to pay duty and taxes on the cost of the “repairs” (service and parts). GST, and PST, if applicable in your province, will be billed to you separately by UPS, usually after the delivery of your CYPRES. If you elect to use Canada Post to ship to SSK, Purolator and Xpresspost-USA allow some form of tracking and insurance coverage. However, our policy is to return via UPS Express (Refer to January 8, 2005 Canadian customer letter). When your CYPRES is returned, your country’s duty and tax laws will apply to the cost of “repairs” (service and parts). These charges may be billed to you before or after the return of your CYPRES.SO this one time at band camp..... "Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #21 August 30, 2007 Do tell, what does that have to do with vigil's apparent current inability to source components that aren't defective?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #22 August 30, 2007 Hey Mark, Been a long time since I've seen you out jumping...guess you're at Gan all the time. Personal experience, last year: Bought a rig from the US, including 4 year old cypress in need of maintenance. Paid $500 in taxes because it was sent at full value for everything. (Damn)... Anyways, I sent the cypress away using the instructions for Canada on their website. I was billed a total of $360 including it's first 4 year, battery, shipping and taxes on the "repairs". This was last year when the dollar was around .80cents. The exchange is to your benefit right now, and it's not going to be as bad as you think. Also, if you decide to sell, do you think someone is going to pay full value that SSK's website says it's worth? I doubt it, but maybe. I bet you're also not including the taxes on the new Vigil, as well as the duty/taxes that you'll still have to pay to get it into Canada. You WILL pay more to get the Vigil unless you're getting used. I wish I had a Cypress2, but I've still got 7 years on my Cypress1. I say...keep the Cypress 2 man... Have fun at the Otter Boogie...I'm off to Barrie for 4 days! Later"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #23 August 30, 2007 QuoteSure, and someone had to die for Airtec GmbH start dealing with a well known problem of their design..... If you're referring to the incident where a Cypres fired mid-swoop, that was not a "problem of their design." The Cypres was designed LONG before anybody was exceeding activation speeds under canopy. People who knowingly exceed activation speeds under canopy - and really, if we're gonna have one in our rig we should know what those speeds are - are taking on additional risk for themselves. Kind of like if you overload a reserve and it blows up on opening. Not really the manufacturers problem - you're the one who chose to exceed the limits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #24 August 30, 2007 QuoteIf you're referring to the incident where a Cypres fired mid-swoop, that was not a "problem of their design." The Cypres was designed LONG before anybody was exceeding activation speeds under canopy. People who knowingly exceed activation speeds under canopy - and really, if we're gonna have one in our rig we should know what those speeds are - are taking on additional risk for themselves. As long as remember manufacturer was denying even that could happen..... until someone has died.... QuoteKind of like if you overload a reserve and it blows up on opening. Not really the manufacturers problem - you're the one who chose to exceed the limits. They were keep on telling that you are not able to reach those speeds under canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #25 August 30, 2007 >As long as remember manufacturer was denying even that could happen..... From Kai's letter to Skydiving Magazine, 2003: "According to our current knowledge base, it is very unlikely that a skydiver will reach the necessary (vertical) speed for a CYPRES activation after the setup for a high performance landing. This does not mean that something like this may never happen in the future." So they came out and said that it might happen in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
