Canopy and Landing Area

[Emel 0]

This is a very beginner question. I jumped my level 4 Tandem progression which was my first solo on Sunday. My biggest concern was landing the canopy in the right area. I know that I always want to be upwind from the DZ; that I cover more ground with the wind than sideways or against it. But I am so scared that I am going to end up down wind from the DZ. When I pull and my canopy inflates, I am so afraid that I am going to just fly off.... It's so high up apparantly I can't judge the distance. I swear I thought I was just going to fly off and end up another state.
My JM some how got me back to the DZ by radio but I couldn't have done it myself.

I need some advice on figuring out where I am going to land and not straying too far to get back there. I have seen and I think I understand the landing pattern but something just isn't clicking in my head. I am hoping that there is something somebody can say that will make my concerns go away.

I will definitely be discussing this in more detail with my JM so don't worry about that. I just wanted some other input in hopes it will all become clear. Thanks.

Life is best lived one jump at a time.

[Jib 0]

Relax.
When you open, point yourself into the wind.
Find the landing area.
Find options in case you can't make it there.
If you have options and know what they are, you'll be in a better position to use them. Be prepared.

As for judging landing area, look for the spot the doesn't move as you do.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Get yourself a book and read! Brian Germains book "The Parachute and its Pilot" Is a great place to start. You should be scared shitless your first solo canopy flight. If you weren'e you'd be damaged It gets better, easier, and all around more comfortable. After opening take a big deep cleansing breath, let it out slowley and relax! If you want to know where you are look down past your foot using it as a sight. It's not perfect, but good enough. You know where you are now, just figure out where you want to go! Most of all TALK TO YOUR INSTRUCTORS. Sorry for yelling, just wanted to make sure you heard me. There is good advice on DZ.COM and there is some extreamly bad advice as well. Wait till you have enough experience to know the difference before you take any away from this forum. Your instructors and respected literature are the only ones you should listen to right now.
Peace, Love and Anarchy!

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I need some advice on figuring out where I am going to land

There will be locations on the ground which move from the horizon down towards your feet. If you do nothing with your canopy controls and the wind conditions do not change, you will over fly these locations. Likewise there will be locations on the ground which will be moving up towards the horizon. Once again if the wind conditions do not change, you will not make it to these locations. But there will be a point on the ground which does not move up and it will not move down, it will only get bigger and bigger in your view. If you don't change the canopy control inputs and the winds do not change, this is where you are heading. This is called the accuracy trick and the sooner you start using it, the better off you will be.

There are a million other things that we can tell you, but not only do we not want to over load you with info, but they are also things which can and should be taught to you once you gain more experience. But I would like to leave you with one last thought. Do not get the case of "get-back-itis" syndrome. By the time you are about 1000 feet above the ground, you absolutely need to have already selected a landing area that you know you can make. If the accuracy trick tells you that you can't make it back to the main landing area, well you can't make it back. Many people have been messed up because they thought they could make it when they couldn't. It's kind of like asking that guy/girl, so how many perfectly good fields to land in did you pass while on your way to landing in that tree?

I hope what I have said has made sense to you.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[juanesky 0]

I would advice that first you talk to your instructors, second have them help you make a flight plan, and study the map, with detail and see where your flight plan is applied (according to that date's conditions) to this map.

Then you will know exactly where you need to be at certain altitudes and have alternatives. Learn to fly your canopy, with flat turns. Relax and talk some more to your instructors.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

I would advice that first you talk to your instructors, second have them help you make a flight plan, and study the map, with detail and see where your flight plan is applied (according to that date's conditions) to this map.

Then you will know exactly where you need to be at certain altitudes and have alternatives. Learn to fly your canopy, with flat turns. Relax and talk some more to your instructors.

This is the best advise you will get. Talk to the people that know you and how you fly a canopy.

Good luck and welcome to skydiving.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

Quote

I am so afraid that I am going to just fly off

Don't be.

your instructors will have jumped & dispatched many times at your DZ. They know the canopy you are jumping, the typical wind conditions that exsist at your DZ, your deployment height etc. etc. and will have extimated your exit point accordinley. There SHOULD be no reason why you can't get back to the DZ safely (although this cannot be guaranteed). So trust yor instructors abilities (and your own). Remember the radio is an additional aid, your instructor would not let you jump if he felt you did not retain enough of your training to fly & land your canopy safely.

One of our s/l students hit his head on the step (C182) on exit, lost his helmet & radio and had to rely totally on retained information. He landed exactly where he was supposed to & flared at correct height.

Students often rely to much on radios and will only do what they are told. Some of them have flown into obstructions (trees, fences etc.) becase they were not told to turn L or R (radio not understood, working or were lost from view of 'talkdown'.

Talk & listen to your instructors, these are the best guys to give you advise.

CanuckInUSA is correct when he says

Quote

By the time you are about 1000 feet above the ground, you absolutely need to have already selected a landing area that you know you can make.

Better you land off in a BIG OPEN area than taking a 'downwinder' into a hazzard in a tight corner of the DZ, just to 'get back'

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[skyhighkiy 0]

Quote

I am hoping that there is something somebody can say that will make my concerns go away.

we have all been there at one point or another, and as you get used to it, it will become almost 2nd nature to you.

BE THE BUDDHA!

[Emel 0]

Quote

I would advice that first you talk to your instructors, second have them help you make a flight plan, and study the map, with detail and see where your flight plan is applied (according to that date's conditions) to this map.

Then you will know exactly where you need to be at certain altitudes and have alternatives. Learn to fly your canopy, with flat turns. Relax and talk some more to your instructors.

I will definitely talk with my instructors this weekend but I needed some peace of mind before then. I wasn't that concerned right after the jump but the more time that goes by the more worried I am. I just jumped Sunday so it's only been like 3 days.
At the rate I was going I would have been tied in a knot by the weekend. Thanks for all the advice. I feel better.

Life is best lived one jump at a time.

[jumpervali 2]

Just keep it simple. You only need to land in a "large grassy area with a parachute over your head." The grassy part is easy we have 600 acres even though you want to ideally land in 10 of them you can use all 600 if you want. The parachute over your head part is reinforcing the no hard turns on final so you don't swing out from under your parachute. The more you fly the better you will get. We will cover your canopy pattern before the jump every time don't worry. Trust your intuition you will get an eye for it.

jumpervali aff-i-04

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I would advice that first you talk to your instructors, second have them help you make a flight plan, and study the map, with detail and see where your flight plan is applied (according to that date's conditions) to this map.

Then you will know exactly where you need to be at certain altitudes and have alternatives.

I absolutely agree that she needs to talk to her instructors and knowing the area (if studying a map helps) is good. But I am concerned that you're trying to suggest that someone needs to set a flight plan so that they except to be in the same spot in the sky at the same altitude on every jump. Each jump is unique and conditions from one jump to the next will never be the same (weather conditions change, every exit out of the aircraft will leave you in a different part of the sky and air traffic will always differ). People need to learn (through instruction and experience) how to fly their canopies in this ever so changing dynamic environment. So to suggest that one expects to be in the same part of the sky at the same altitude is wrong, at least wrong in my mind.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[juanesky 0]

Quote

Quote

I would advice that first you talk to your instructors, second have them help you make a flight plan, and study the map, with detail and see where your flight plan is applied (according to that date's conditions) to this map.

Then you will know exactly where you need to be at certain altitudes and have alternatives.

I absolutely agree that she needs to talk to her instructors and knowing the area (if studying a map helps) is good. But I am concerned that you're trying to suggest that someone needs to set a flight plan so that they except to be in the same spot in the sky at the same altitude on every jump. Each jump is unique and conditions from one jump to the next will never be the same (weather conditions change, every exit out of the aircraft will leave you in a different part of the sky and air traffic will always differ). People need to learn (through instruction and experience) how to fly their canopies in this ever so changing dynamic environment. So to suggest that one expects to be in the same part of the sky at the same altitude is wrong, at least wrong in my mind.

You are missing the portion of that date's condition. In the IRM's it is encouraged to make a flight plan with the student for each individual jump. If you have not dealt with students before, nor particiapte in any instructional rating I would advice you read the actual IRM's and sims.

Giving the experience you will find that the flight plan can be rotated and adjusted accordingly, even if the wind direction, speeds change while they are going to altitude. Given the particular condition of her, she needs to get more used to that particular terrain, not using techniques that could be quite complicated for novices. It is customary that AFF instructors go to the LZ - map with the student and go over the landing pattern, and not "if a point of reference is rising to the horizon"....that is for later. Let them get acquainted with their particular LZ.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Randy_H 0]

My AFF instructors go over the approach before each jump. As I get further along in AFF, they are asking me to plan my approach and then checking it.

My instructors have me head to my holding area right after canopy deployment. Once I am there, I am free to play around with canopy control. We just fly around in our holding area until we get to 1000 ft, then we begin our downwind leg to 600 ft, then turn onto our base leg until we reach 300 ft, then we start our final approach into the wind. As long as you can pick out and recognize one large object on the map near your holding area, you shouldn't have any problems getting there.

I had problems with recognizing objects from high altitudes when I first started AFF but with each jump, I am picking out other objects so I can get to know the area better. Once you are in your holding area, you should be able to see the windsock or tachyon easily and plan or modify your approach from there. That is what I do. My first goal is to make sure I have a safe area to land, and my second goal is to land into the wind. My first AFF jump, I landed with the wind and my tailbone still hurts!

Good Luck!

010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001

[BrianSGermain 1]

The Expectation Principle

When we pursue the goal of transcending our fear, one important thing to take a look at is our overall sense of control. Understanding how to fly and navigate your parachute, for instance, is an important aspect of alleviating your fears, but it is only part of the equation. You also must consider how competent you consider yourself when it comes to making decisions under pressure.

Letting go of your fear is a function of believing that you are in control of the situation. This means that you believe that your mental model is sufficient to get you through the situation. Different people have differing thresholds for this kind of comfort, primarily based on their previous life experiences. If you have gotten yourself out of jams in the past, you will have an unconscious level of self-trust in your abilities under pressure.

If you are in a mental environment of negative expectation because you do not believe in yourself, you will only see obstacles. You will see worst-case scenarios and tragic consequences. If you hold an attitude of positive expectation about yourself and the world, things tend to go your way. The mind creates the world we live in.

We have to take full responsibility for our perceptions. Our minds are not a perfect mirror of the world, but a tainted reflection. Our thoughts and perceptions are screened through our personality, and skewed to fit our view of the world. It is not: “There is a turn necessary”, it is: “I have to make a turn”. This means the turn is weighed against our perceived ability to make that turn, and compared with the success of past circumstances of a similar nature. By reflecting in this manner, we have trouble executing anything perfectly because our imagination is based on the past. We have eliminated the possibility of spontaneous perfection.

+

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[mattjw916 2]

Quote

you should be able to see the windsock or tachyon easily...

I think you mean tetrahedron

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Randy_H 0]

Quote

I think you mean tetrahedron [Tongue][Laugh]

I did... thanks for the correction!

010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001

[DancingFlame 0]

[my odd opinion starts here]

Just fly your canopy. Do not think about accuracy, landing areas etc. Trust yourself and open your eyes. Feel the confidence: you can and you WILL land just fine.
It's really easy. It's all mental.
I had no problems with accuracy even on my first jump with square parachute (don't think my 22 jumps with rounds helped be a lot). I felt my parachute, knew its reaction on control inputs and was just getting tons of fun flying my wing. I suggest you to do the same: just enjoy it!

[my odd opinion ends here]

[Fast 0]

Quote

[my odd opinion starts here]

Just fly your canopy. Do not think about accuracy, landing areas etc. Trust yourself and open your eyes. Feel the confidence: you can and you WILL land just fine.
It's really easy. It's all mental.
I had no problems with accuracy even on my first jump with square parachute (don't think my 22 jumps with rounds helped be a lot). I felt my parachute, knew its reaction on control inputs and was just getting tons of fun flying my wing. I suggest you to do the same: just enjoy it!

[my odd opinion ends here]

Plan the Dive, Dive the Plan


To me, at least, this includes everything from the dive flow to the canopy flight. Many much more experienced people agree with that sentiment too. It is good to know what your going to do before you are put in the stressfull situation of flying around under canopy. It may not seem like it is a directly stressfull situation at first but when you consider the dynamics of the situation and all the things that you really should be doing under canopy it becomes more clear.

If you have a plan for where your going to fly and at what altitudes your going to fly there you have a better starting point for your mind to grasp onto. (and its one less thing to think about) This means that at 1900' you aren't trying to decide where to hold and enter the pattern and you can concentrate on other things. (Watching for other canopies, using the time under canopy to practice flat turns, flare turns, braked flight, non-braked flight, testing wind penetration, etc.) You are also then making only minor corrections to your pattern for current wind conditions and the like not trying to make up a pattern in the air.

The point is you have a lot going on and having a good plan going in helps. Now maybe you weren't suggesting the contrary but it didn't seem clear to me what you were saying from your post. I agree with you in the sense that I don't think you should over think things. Just develop a clear basic plan to use as a base and make corrections to it given your situation when you find yourself hanging there under that canopy after pull time.

Maybe your just offering reasuring words.

My reply to first poster:
If you have confidence regarding your skills it shouldn't be a problem to open, fly, and land a canopy. If you don't it can be nerve racking. I think trusting your instructors helps a lot. Talk to them, as much as you need to for you to be comfortable that you know what your doing. That to me is the first step. Once you can trust in yourself to know that you will act accordingly to the situation your in, then things become easier. (I hesitate to say easy) People can say this or that here on the internet but the starting point is good face to face instruction and confidence in that instruction.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Given the particular condition of her, she needs to get more used to that particular terrain, not using techniques that could be quite complicated for novices.

Bingo.

Gotta learn to crawl first, people.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.