Maximum Jumps per day

[grassman 1]

Our local Parachute Association wants to know if jumpers and more specific tandem masters should be allowed to do only a certain amount of jumps per day. Like pilots may only fly for 8 hours a day.

The question arose that tandem masters might get fatigued or the exposure to the high altitude of 10000 above ground (ground is 170 feet above sea level) and the lack of oxygen in the air at altitude might cause fatigue.
Have any studies been done regarding this?
Have any other parachute associations such limitations?
Is this a valid question by our parachute association?
Have any doctors looked at this?

Please let me know if you have more information about this.

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, flying at high altitude (i.e. above 10,000 feet above sea level) is fatiguing.

However, fatigue is very much an individual problem.

Physical fitness, emotional fitness, sleep patterns, nutrition, weather, etc. all affect a person's fatigue.
For example, during a recent Saturday, I did 12 tandems (most from 12,500 feet above sea level) and took another (early freefall) student to 4,000 feet on the sunset load.

The other factor is economic. Since tandem instructors do not get paid very well, they tend to push themselves very hard on days that have good weather and plenty of students.
I will admit to having continued jumping (with tandem students) even though I was fatigued. I was so tired that I used "self-talk" to remind myself of the routine tasks that must be performed by every TI on every tandem jump.
All the jumps ended successfully (soft landing, in the grass, beside the pea gravel bowl, etc.) because they were "simple" skydives. By "simple" I mean that I was able to repeat a routine that I have flown thousands of times before. There was no requirement for original ideas, memorizing a new block of formations, etc.

For the record, I have more tandems that solo skydives (roughly 3,700 tandems in 5,000 total jumps), so strapping on a screaming, flailing, fat student is "normal" for me, while "fun" jumps require concentration.

You may call me superstitious, but patting all the handles (in the same order that I plan to pull them) only counts if I mumble their names.

[billvon 3,000]

1) Yes, performance does degrade. This is more noticeable on teams that have a lot to do on skydives; tandem masters have less to do overall per jump. (Not to say tandems are easy, but it's easier to identify fatigue-related issues when you can easily quantify performance problems, as you can with a video of a 4-way team.)

2) Altitude is indeed an issue. People who use O2 on jumps (even higher altitude jumps) get through the day with less fatigue.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Grass,

I don't know of any specific studies or "physiology" type research done into this area, but if anyone has anything specific, I too would be interested to hear it.

As I'm sure you know, there's this gent by the name of Jay Stokes that has done over 600 hop-n-pops in a 24 hour period, but his preparation, experience, support crew, conditioning, etc. was all Exceptional, to say the least.

Personally, the most jumps I've done in a day is 11, but they were all night jumps & only hop-n-pops... long story.

"Back in the day"... at the DZ I learned at, the (then) DZO used to often limit a student to doing only 3 student jumps per day because of fatigue.

I have been to a DZ where the Tandem Masters not only had to "jump" the Tandem, they also had to pack the Tandem rigs afterwards / before the next Tandem student / jump. After 3, 4 or 5 Tandem Jumps & Pack-jobs, they were pretty whipped puppies.

[BillyVance 34]

The most I ever made in one day was 13 jumps, out of a super fast King Air from 15,000 feet, and my own pack jobs. I was soooo pooped that I made 2 jumps the next morning and said, fuck it, I'm tired and I'm going home.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I have been to a DZ where the Tandem Masters not only had to "jump" the Tandem, they also had to pack the Tandem rigs afterwards / before the next Tandem student / jump. After 3, 4 or 5 Tandem Jumps & Pack-jobs, they were pretty whipped puppies.

And that's gonna depend totaly on the individual and how they take care of themselves. I can do 10 with pack jobs and feel fine provided I eat, and drink fluids, and get plenty of rest the night before. But then I am used to doing so. A weekend TI might not be capable of the same.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[flypunk 0]

I agree that this will vary depending on the individual, and if anyone the DZ should be the one setting the limit.

Our two DZ managers are also TMs and they typically are not in the rotation, unless somebody pulls off or needs a break. Safety is not a compromise our dz is willing to make.

Others will step in as well and help with the 250#r at the last load of the day when you are worn or hurting.

Its pretty simple, $30 is not worth getting injured, and most definitely not worth injuring your passenger.

Keep hidrated, fed, work out reguraly and once your mind starts wondering due to fatigue, stop. Your body is not the only thing that gets tired, and all the muscle in the world aint gonna save your butt if your mind is not in it.

Ive stepped in when needed but I've also stepped out when my back started giving out, and although I couldve handled it if it all went well, I wasnt sure that I could if anything went sour. I dont regret not going.

Max Ive done is 12 tandems 3 camera jumps and 2 fun jumps in one day.

...

[marks2065 0]

i've personally done 13 tandems in a day and 23 in a weekend and i know how tired you can get - i've seen instructors do as many as 22 tandems in a day wich i think is crazy - even if they are in good shape that is still alot - also what kind of service does the student get ? hi my name is ? get out the door and by - i wouldn't want to pay $300 for that

[riggerrob 643]

"Back in the day"... at the DZ I learned at, the (then) DZO used to often limit a student to doing only 3 student jumps per day because of fatigue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

That is because students' fear - and adrenaline - levels tend to be far higher for far longer than TIs. All that adrenaline burns through blood sugar rapidly.
Ergo, students suffer fatigue far sooner than TIs.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

"Back in the day"... at the DZ I learned at, the (then) DZO used to often limit a student to doing only 3 student jumps per day because of fatigue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

That is because students' fear - and adrenaline - levels tend to be far higher for far longer than TIs. All that adrenaline burns through blood sugar rapidly.
Ergo, students suffer fatigue far sooner than TIs.

Are you saying you don't get skee-urd anymore?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

"Back in the day"... at the DZ I learned at, the (then) DZO used to often limit a student to doing only 3 student jumps per day because of fatigue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

That is because students' fear - and adrenaline - levels tend to be far higher for far longer than TIs. All that adrenaline burns through blood sugar rapidly.
Ergo, students suffer fatigue far sooner than TIs.

Yeah, duh, that's kinda what I meant, Rob.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

Quote

"Back in the day"... at the DZ I learned at, the (then) DZO used to often limit a student to doing only 3 student jumps per day because of fatigue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

That is because students' fear - and adrenaline - levels tend to be far higher for far longer than TIs. All that adrenaline burns through blood sugar rapidly.
Ergo, students suffer fatigue far sooner than TIs.

Are you saying you don't get skee-urd anymore?

Well, us "weenkend types" do still get skee-urd and fatigued sometimes... us not being "he-men" like y'all that can pack and jump 10 times or more in a day.

[cpoxon 0]

Matthias, has this enquiry from the Parachute Association come about as a result of the recent fatality which you suffered?

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[grassman 1]

Hi Craig

Yes our PAMAN wants to know if fatigue could have added to the chain of events of the double fatality which we had in Namibia in April.

Matthias