Smirniof 0 #1 July 6, 2007 Hello, Just curious. Compared to a Navigator (260 in my case) ... how would you rate the openings on other parachutes. Are the other parachutes opening any softer than my Navigator ...or are they a bit rougher? Best Regards, Mircea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #2 July 6, 2007 There are so many variables that there really is no way to compare the openings on all canopies to the Navigator 260. A lot depends on how they are packed. What kind of openings are you wanting? brisk? soft 800 ft openings? Certain designs are known for their soft openings like the Spectre. Others are known for their brisk to hard openings such as the orginal Sabre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smirniof 0 #3 July 6, 2007 Hi, All I know is that I get bruized every time i open my chute. Would it be a good idea to talk to my packer... maybe he can adjust the opening a little to make it smoother? I was reading some reviews about the sabre 2 ... and alot of people are recomending it for its smooth openings... I was wondering how it would compare to the openings on a Navigator 260. Mircea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #4 July 6, 2007 >how would you rate the openings on other parachutes. You can get a Spectre that takes 800 feet to open, a Pilot that opens reliably in about 300-400 feet, or an older Sabre 1 that will knock you silly on opening. There are all kinds of parachutes that open all kinds of ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #5 July 6, 2007 Ask your packer to roll the nose if they are not doing so already. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #6 July 6, 2007 I like my Sabre 2. I have about 850 jumps on 150 and about 100 jumps on my current Sabre 2 135. The openings are generally very good. I have had a couple of very hard openings, but that is only 2 out of 950 jumps. Nearly all the pack jobs were done by me so those 2 were probably my fault. I would talk to the packer and tell him about the hard openings and see if there is anything he can do to slow them down. Like rolling the nose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smirniof 0 #7 July 6, 2007 Ok ... I'll rephrase my question with 2 other questions: 1) Out of curiosity ... I never gave it a thought before and I never checked before... how many ft does it take for a Navigator to open in theory? 2) What other rigs out there would offer a softer opening compared to the Navigator? Mircea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #8 July 6, 2007 QuoteAll I know is that I get bruized every time i open my chute. Student gear, right? There's a good possibility it's not the speed of the opening but the harness not fitting you well that's causing the bruises. This is very common. Once you get a sport (ie. not student) harness/container system that fits you, I'd bet the bruising won't be an issue anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #9 July 6, 2007 I have an original Sabre (at 150) and she opens sweetly. I look after the slider during packing and have never had a hard opening (once, she didn't open at all tho - packing error!!!!). (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smirniof 0 #10 July 6, 2007 Perhaps a customized harness with wider straps would do the trick and spread the pressure over a wider area... a thought for the future... Mircea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 July 6, 2007 QuoteOk ... I'll rephrase my question with 2 other questions: 1) Out of curiosity ... I never gave it a thought before and I never checked before... how many ft does it take for a Navigator to open in theory? 2) What other rigs out there would offer a softer opening compared to the Navigator? As they're telling you, too many variables. And harness fit definitely affects the perceived harshness of the opening. Triathlons have some reputation for being faster openers, but I found mine so slow that I started packing for a quicker opening. Have you not used any other canopy yet? You probably would like trying the Spectre as a starting point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #12 July 6, 2007 QuoteYou probably would like trying the Spectre as a starting point. Unless we're talking about some really sloppy packing techniques here, for sure he wouldn't be asking us about hard openings if he was jumping a Spectre. Spectres are great all around canopies. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaryRay 0 #13 July 6, 2007 ive been jumping the navigator canopies as a student and i know the feeling of the "hard" openings, my biggest problem was that the container itself was just not comfortable and would tear into me on every opening, i just want to use rental gear from the rental stores from now on :). well until i get my own gear.JewBag. www.jewbag.wordpress.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #14 July 7, 2007 Hi Mircea, I'm currently jumping with a NEW NAV260, Wings container same WL as you. From the moment I'm beginning my opening sequence(I'm still in the box position at that time) until I'm saddle, it takes around 500ft (152m) and 3-4 sec. I've timed it a lot of times. I never had a hard open! It's always soft, predictable and on heading. One time it snivel to long so I've pull on my back risers to bring the slider down. Some of my friends are renting NAV260 from my DZ and they are experiencing the same opening sequence like me. Those NAV* are used a lot and still gives good results. Cheers, Jean-Arthur Deda. Edit to add: our packers are always rolling the nouse. That's how I've been thought to do! It might be this. Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #15 July 7, 2007 Quote> or an older Sabre 1 that will knock you silly on opening. I use a Sabre 1 150, and I've got the openings dialed in pretty good. IT'S ALL IN THE SLIDER during packing. I haven't had a hard opening in a year and a half. I rigger walked me through how to pack it better. I was making the mistake of pulling the slider too far out so it wasn't catching the airstream. I now keep the slider in with a good 1/4 pushed in deep, and I roll the tail tight. It's helped my openings, but I can't speak for other peoples experiences with the Sabre 1. I guess some Sabre's open hard no matter what you do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbondvegas 0 #16 July 7, 2007 QuoteHello, Just curious. Compared to a Navigator (260 in my case) ... how would you rate the openings on other parachutes. Are the other parachutes opening any softer than my Navigator ...or are they a bit rougher? Best Regards, Mircea Based upon my experience, most modern sport canopies open softer than the Navigator. I jumped Navigator 260's and 240's as a student and while I never felt like I got whacked, I frequently had mild bruises. On jump 26, I jumped my sport rig: a Javelin and Triathlon 220 ('98 Model). I finally understood what a snivel was...and older Tri's aren't the slowest opening of canopies...but they are way slower than Nav's. I've demo'd Safire's, Sabre 2's, Pilot's and Spectre's and they are all very smooth/slow opening canopy's. My favorite is the Pilot....or maybe my Tri 220 with the 5.0 line mod.- - - I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #17 July 7, 2007 I do the same with my slider but do not roll the tail... For me, it's all down to the slider. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #18 July 7, 2007 As has been mentioned, there are too many variables, and not all of them involve the canopy either. Here are some examples: --Bad body position upon deployment can screw up an opening. --How the slider is positioned when packed will affect it. --Whether the nose is rolled, or tucked when packed will affect it. --How the tail is positioned when packed will affect it. --The loading of the canopy will affect it. --If the canopy is made of Zero-P or F-111 nylon will affect it. My personal canopy is a Triathlon, which is known for very comfortable openings. I've had "thwackers" on it before. Simple fact, many different canopies have many different opening characteristics, but that should only be part of your evaluation as you explore flying other equipment as you progress. In almost every case, you can pack the canopy to accommodate your opening preference regardless of canopy design (although, canopy design helps too).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #19 July 7, 2007 Quote--Whether the nose is rolled How will this affect an opening? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #20 July 8, 2007 Depending on whether you'd like a seven or nine cell, get a Spectre or a Pilot. Both have lovely soft openings. I've also heard good things about the Safire, though I haven't tried one. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #21 July 8, 2007 Quote ...Triathlons have some reputation for being faster openers... Who in the world told you that? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #22 July 8, 2007 An excellent resource is right there with you at NouvelAir. Talk with Gilles Leboeuf. He will give you qualified, first-hand info.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #23 July 8, 2007 QuoteQuote--Whether the nose is rolled How will this affect an opening? I'll counter your question with another, how does a ram-air canopy open, and stay inflated? Rolling the nose affects how quickly the nose starts catching air (in cooperation with the slider) upon deployment. edit to add: I've never rolled the nose on my Triathlon, but I do a combo of rolling the nose along with quartering the slider with my large F-111 StarTrac II demo canopy.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
point_code 0 #24 July 24, 2007 Gee I remember the Nav opening pretty nice back in my student days (not all that long ago). But then again I fly a Sabre I now........... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #25 July 24, 2007 Quote Quote ...Triathlons have some reputation for being faster openers... Who in the world told you that? Art from the sky dive store told me that, his tri broke his back apparently. Obviously your mileage may vary since there are so many different variables! My hornet likes to bring the pain on a regular basis, good thing I am a masochist who likes fast opening canopies!!! Newer hornets were fitted with with a much larger slider and those owners all talk about the pilot like snivel."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
