Jon26 0 #126 June 24, 2007 Hi all, this is my first post on these forums. I am a newbie to the sport. I'm not really aware of the decline that is apparently happening but it is funny that the initial post on this thread seems to be questioning declining numbers whilst promoting exclusion of participants. Promoting numbers is easy. Marketing is 90% of everything as they say. I am also a keen snowboarder. A sport which is definitely not declining in numbers. The reason? It's "cool". Skydiving needs to regain its "cool" image to promote numbers. Simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #127 June 25, 2007 QuoteI am also a keen snowboarder. A sport which is definitely not declining in numbers. The reason? It's "cool". Skydiving needs to regain its "cool" image to promote numbers. Simple. The reason is NOT simple. 1) Snowboarding has a much lower up front cost for gear. 2) You don’t have to be 18 years old to do it. 3) Skiing/Snowboarding is highly accessible. When I was growing up, my school had the ski bus every weekend that took us up to the mountains. 4) Snowboarding is safer than skydiving. How many fatalities have you heard about on the slopes lately? Skydiving will never be trendy or marketable. Jumping out of a plane is just not considered a vital part of the human experience. It’s too scary, weird and unconventional to obtain mass appeal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stl135 0 #128 June 25, 2007 I heard this from a long-time jumper: "Skydiving has 3 enemies: Gravity, Government entities, and pettiness among jumpers." Be safe ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon26 0 #129 June 25, 2007 Hmmm, yeah, you're right, i suppose. But i think marketing has a large effect. Skydiving needs exposure. Skydiving is rarely shown on tv and when it is, it's all BASE and, lately, wingsuits. The general public need to be exposed to more of the fun side of things rather than make skydiving look like the most dangerous thing in the world which it's not. If people realised how easy it is to get into skydiving, far more of them would join in, i reckon. BTW, I have heard of several fatalities snowboarding. It can be dangerous too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #130 June 25, 2007 QuoteThe general public needs to be exposed to more of the fun side of things rather than make skydiving look like the most dangerous thing in the world which it's not. It is the most dangerous *legal* sport in existence. QuoteIf people realized how easy it is to get into skydiving, far more of them would join in, I reckon. I agree. The nice thing about skydiving is that there is technically no learning curve to overcome when making that first jump. You jump out of the airplane, gravity takes care of the rest. Even if you flail uncontrollably or end up with a cypress fire, you still experienced freefall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon26 0 #131 June 25, 2007 What about freeclimbing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitywhore 0 #132 June 25, 2007 I am sorry if at other DZ's people are seeing a decline in the amount of return students or people going further in their disciplines . In Ontario ,Canada we are going strong ..we had a class of 33 first timers on sat and 16 tandems .and a whole bunch of return students on sunday and more tandems.... this is a small 2 cessna DZ but the vibe there is amazing ... I think the desire to keep up with the sport has a lot to do with the vibe put out by the oldtimers and instructors..... just my 2 cents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #133 June 25, 2007 QuoteIt is the most dangerous *legal* sport in existence. BS, not even close. Top 10 Most Dangerous and Extreme Sports in the World 1. BASE 2. Free Diving: 3. Cave Diving:. 4. Speed Skiing: 5. Rock Fishing: 6. Bull Riding: 7. Supercross: 8. Solo Yacht Racing: 9. Street Luging:. 10. Riding a Bike: http://www.chaimedia.com/list/200.htmlMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #134 June 25, 2007 When I jumped a few times in 1980 there were dickheads at the DZ. When I jumped again in 1991 there were assholes at the DZ. Every year a jerk off or two slip through and attend my boogie. Who gives a rats ass? It's just a reflection of society...a certain percentage of humans can't help themselves, no matter how old they are or what generation they are from. Hell, when I had the Bent Prop Bar and Grill there were jumpers that thought I was a prick half of the time! The only thing I see wrong these days is that some of the newer jumpers get irritated when a fellow skydiver points out a safety/training/gear issue to them. When I had a hundred jumps I listened to what the "Old Farts" had to say. Most of those old guys are still jumping their asses off too. But take a close look at skydivers. You put a couple of hundred of them in a little log cabin bar in Montana, all drinking their heads off and guess what? No one wants to pick a fight with anyone else...and hell, half of the guys and girls have stolen each others girlfriends and boyfriends! Try that in other sports, or careers (cops, firemen, nurses,etc) It would be mayhem! So I'll keep taking my chances at the DZ because 99% of the jumpers I know are the greatest people I have ever met. And the newer jumpers are supposed to be full of piss and vinegar, hell, it would be boring if they weren't. And some of the wonderkids have kept my EMT skills sharp over the years. Skydiving sucks at marketing. Those fat, bald poker players are known worldwide...but just ask John Q. Public who Dan BC , Craig Girard, Olav Zipser or Jim Wallace and BJ Worth are. Our sport is not spectator friendly, except for swoop events. And maybe really big ways. And we also have a bad habit of killing our most well known skydivers. And why would you become a full time DZ employee to make an owner tons of $$$ while you don't have two dimes to rub together after a student injures you on a tandem landing and you can't jump for 6 months. And after giving 20 or more years of hard work at the DZ you don't have a retirement plan or health care. So why do we still jump? Because the sky still thrills us, our friends still like us and if we don't keep jumping we will miss something or get talked about! And skydiving is a great way of life... So Sparky, get out that ratty old orange jumpsuit and get in the plane! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #135 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe general public needs to be exposed to more of the fun side of things rather than make skydiving look like the most dangerous thing in the world which it's not. It is the most dangerous *legal* sport in existence. Hardly. Parachuting from cliffs in BLM and state lands is legal. 200-300' freefalls off sheer cliffs with no reserve has to be more dangerous than opening 3000' off the ground with a reserve and nothing near. Skiing or snowboarding steep narrow chutes with cliff drops has less room for error even without considering avalance potential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #136 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe general public needs to be exposed to more of the fun side of things rather than make skydiving look like the most dangerous thing in the world which it's not. It is the most dangerous *legal* sport in existence. Hardly. Parachuting from cliffs in BLM and state lands is legal. 200-300' freefalls off sheer cliffs with no reserve has to be more dangerous than opening 3000' off the ground with a reserve and nothing near. Skiing or snowboarding steep narrow chutes with cliff drops has less room for error even without considering avalance potential. Free Solo Climbing too would fall in that range IMO.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #137 June 25, 2007 QuoteTop 10 Most Dangerous and Extreme Sports in the World 1. BASE 2. Free Diving: 3. Cave Diving:. 4. Speed Skiing: 5. Rock Fishing: 6. Bull Riding: 7. Supercross: 8. Solo Yacht Racing: 9. Street Luging:. 10. Riding a Bike: http://www.chaimedia.com/list/200.html Sparky, this list is bullshit with some truths and a great deal of filler. I believe skydiving was excluded as being related to #1, esp when you see #10, #8, and esp #5. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #138 June 25, 2007 QuoteI believe skydiving was excluded as being related to #1, esp when you see #10, #8, and esp #5. And where is your list and source?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #139 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteI believe skydiving was excluded as being related to #1, esp when you see #10, #8, and esp #5. And where is your list and source? Where is chaimedia.com's resource and studies? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #140 June 25, 2007 Quote Where is chaimedia.com's resource and studies? Ask them, I provided my sourse.Here is a second source that may easier for you to understand. http://www.kidzworld.com/article/1984-worlds-most-dangerous-sportsMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #141 June 25, 2007 A "source" that doesn't provide their source or research data is no more valid than "she said ..." steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #142 June 25, 2007 Quote A "source" that doesn't provide their source or research data is no more valid than "she said ..." And green and yellow make blue. They probably just made it all up and are part of a larger conspiracy. Like I said, if you want to see their data contact them. sip@chaimedia.comMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,057 #143 June 25, 2007 Top 10 in number of injuries (from LiveScience) # Basketball: 512,213 # Bicycling: 485,669 # Football: 418,260 # Soccer: 174,686 # Baseball: 155,898 # Skateboards: 112,544 # Trampolines: 108,029 # Softball: 106,884 # Swimming/Diving: 82,354 # Horseback riding: 73,576 Top eight in fatality rate per 100,000 participants: (from Human Kinetics, Illinois, 1995) Horseracing 128 Skydiving 123 Hang gliding 55 Mountaineering 51 Scuba diving 11 Motorcycle racing 7 College football 3 Boxing 1.3 It's all in your definition of what "dangerous" is. Is it the most likely person a doctor will see in an ER? Skydiving doesn't even make the top 100. Is it the sport most likely to result in your death if you participate in it regularly? It's way up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #144 June 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteI believe skydiving was excluded as being related to #1, esp when you see #10, #8, and esp #5. And where is your list and source? Don't need one when I see a made up Top 10 list that has "EXTREME" in the subject. And yes, I looked at the article. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #145 June 25, 2007 Quote Quote Quote I believe skydiving was excluded as being related to #1, esp when you see #10, #8, and esp #5. And where is your list and source? Don't need one when I see a made up Top 10 list that has "EXTREME" in the subject. And yes, I looked at the article. since when has facts ever become any issue with some posters I have a theory that when people stop jumping due to health or whatever reasons, they start becoming very bitter and vindictive towards other jumpers. Kind of like a jealousy thing i guess. Now that is the death of skydiving. Winging jumpers going on about how good it was in the old days etc etc etc. Times have evolved. I have never seen any entitlement issue in my 14 years of skydiving. Just like the days when no one would snitch on anyone at the dropzone.. Now we have all kinds of grassershttp://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #146 June 25, 2007 I agree with everything that you said. Excellent points. (Of course, me agreeing with you will get you flamed.) I remember when skysurfing was on ESPN. When watching Olympic ice skating, I remember thinking, "It's interesting, but it all looks the same... more spinning." Skysurfing got that reaction from the people at the sports pub where I watched it. Also, most sports get prize money because tv sells products through advertisement. Tiger Woods could sell 20,000 clubs to the general public by just using one. How many wrist-mounted altimeters can be sold ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #147 June 25, 2007 yep, what is the old saying? You don't quit skydiving when you get old, you get old when you quit skydiving! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #148 June 25, 2007 happythoughts, Great point about TV and endorsments. I traveled home from a World Meet once with an Airspeed member. He had just won RW Gold. I hoped we could get through the throngs of fans at the airport when we landed! Wow, I couldn't believe the fame and fortune!! He must have invested it all in the stock market or something because he went back to living in a trailer at the DZ...how humble of him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #149 June 25, 2007 Quote A well run S/L program can bring in money. Not as much as a tandem ride operation, of course, but enough to make it worth the effort. Since the effort will bring in people who want to jump but can't afford AFF, in the long run the dz will make even more money... It does not look like that. In Russia almost every dropzone except the biggest ones offers a solo static line jump with the round, with the appropriate progression. On most country dropzones this is actually the only option available. Because such a jump counts as a "real skydive", and is typically very cheap - usually five to twenty times cheaper than a tandem jump - it attracts a lot of people. So you would expect the student retention rate to be quite high - but it seems to be the same as tandem student retention rate. That's why I think it doesn't work.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #150 June 26, 2007 Quote Even if you flail uncontrollably or end up with a cypress fire, you still experienced freefall. ... or even if you end up in a bounce, you still experienced freefall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
