New students don't stick with it?

[PikzeeVikzen 0]

There is a thread on Bonfire that seriously depressed me. Apparently statistics show that students don't stick with skydiving. I don't want to fall victim to that statistic. Sure, I can't jump every weekend all weekend long but that doesn't mean I'm not in love with the sport. Yes, I get a bump in the road, when I cracked my tailbone. Then I had to take a couple weeks off to heal so I could manage to actually sit on the plane then my door demon attacked. I am mentally passed that now and I'm waiting for my schedule and weather to line up. (Hopefully next weekend
I may have obstacles but that doesn't mean I'm not passionate about the sport. I'm a freaking addict. My husband will catch me watching skydive vids on youtube.com and pick on me about tweaking. Am I really doomed to turning my back on something I love so much?

I'm the twist that turns your key....

[wmw999 2,444]

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Am I really doomed to turning my back on something I love so much?

No. But neither are you required to spend all of your spare time on a sport that's time consuming and expensive.

It's all about priorities. And consider: Most people here on dz.com DID continue. Some don't still jump, some do.

Jumping is way cool. But it's not more important than everything for everyone. Which is probably a good thing.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Moline 0]

I don't see how i could not continue jumping! It is such a rush, it is the rush i always thought it would be! Luckily for me, I've worked my butt off since high school and am in the position that i can afford to carry on. Now my only problem is the time.
The DZ that i learned at is only open on the weekends, and happens to be a mere 4 fast hours away. I work when i'm told and lately that seems to be on the weekends. All i think about on the weekends is "If i get off early at say 3, 3 plus 4 I'll get there at 7, open till 9, hmm time enough for at least 2 jumps, 4 hours back, plus an hour for BSing after jumping, i should make it back by 2am, and wake up at 5:30 for work the next day".

I'm just waiting for the first early day off earlier than 3:05 now!!!

[gofast_ER 0]

I sure as hell hope my girl goes all the way through with it. You gotta have a hell of a lot of drive to get through it. Well at least if you were in a position like me. I really wasn't making that much money and I lived about 1 1/2 hours away from the closest dz. If you want it enough, you will make it happen.

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[skysmurf2 0]

Things change and so do people... thats why people here who have been in the sport along time say that not everyone lasts... they don't.

I'd make the assumption that everyone who starts skydiving and sticks with it for a few jumps (few being relative)... loooooveeessss... skydiving... but then a few years happen, life happens, shit happens.... and maybe you once loooovvveeed it... now... not so much.

But hey I've only been doing this 2.5 years and shit has happened, so has life, I'm still doing it, although no where near as much as I would like to, and its still amazing. I just don't prioritize skydiving over everything else either, and as such am definitely not one of the experienced people.
edit: for crappy syntax

[sundry 0]

This has prob been written somewhere else but research in sweden had shown that the reason the sport wasnt growin was not that few were trained but that few remained after getting their As.

There was a big poll taken among new students why they did not continue within the sport and the overwhelming answer was that they felt it was hard to become part of the community. The old and wise (ie. 100 jumps+) frown at their unsteady exits and questions about packing.

I remember the first hundred i did, after all it wasnt that long ago
I think it sends a pretty important note to everybody (especially if your swedish
)

[hukturn 0]

Study after study and what do we have...nada. Why waste our time. The losses are coming because the demographic of the sport has changed. Even ten years ago, the sport was still owned by long-haired hippie freaks. And, it was cool and we all had fun. Free flying was done at the break off of each RW jump followed by a little CReW.
People aren't staying because we have changed the sport. People came/come because of the brush with death. They stayed because the people made it a rockin' place to be. Have we all simply outgrown it? When was the last time you saw the dance of the flaming asshole? When was the last time you had sex on the beacon? When was the last time that you thought you shit your jumpsuit after a hard night of drinking?
If you want to skydive, do it! If yu want people to come back to your DZ, give them a reason. And, money should not be your motive for people to come back...growth and passion.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Study after study and what do we have...nada. Why waste our time. The losses are coming because the demographic of the sport has changed. Even ten years ago, the sport was still owned by long-haired hippie freaks. And, it was cool and we all had fun. Free flying was done at the break off of each RW jump followed by a little CReW.
People aren't staying because we have changed the sport. People came/come because of the brush with death. They stayed because the people made it a rockin' place to be. Have we all simply outgrown it? When was the last time you saw the dance of the flaming asshole? When was the last time you had sex on the beacon? When was the last time that you thought you shit your jumpsuit after a hard night of drinking?
If you want to skydive, do it! If yu want people to come back to your DZ, give them a reason. And, money should not be your motive for people to come back...growth and passion.

Well spoken...... It's not what it used to be.


Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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People aren't staying because we have changed the sport. People came/come because of the brush with death. They stayed because the people made it a rockin' place to be. Have we all simply outgrown it? When was the last time you saw the dance of the flaming asshole? When was the last time you had sex on the beacon? When was the last time that you thought you shit your jumpsuit after a hard night of drinking?

The partying scene which follows skydiving and jumping itself are separate although both have sufferred in the last decade.

More (tandem-oriented) dropzones don't have beer, bonfires, and camping after the beer light goes on. I don't have an answer for that, but think it's a small contribution to the social component of skydiving.

It used to be that everyone not on a competive team did jumps together, sucessfully built formations, and had fun jumping. With 50 jumps you could fall straight down in a frog-man position and successfully complete larger (4, 8, 12 - pretty much whatever would fit in the plane) formations that weren't too complicated. People who couldn't dive would be in the base or float. That could be even more inclusive now that we have wind-tunnels - we threw my non-skydiving wife in the Arizona tunnel and felt she was doing better than our friend with 70 actual skydives on the first day.

But skydiving got harder and/or competitive. With vertical freefall and people who won't fall flat we can have jumps that aren't even safe (let alone fun) with four figure average jump numbers. I'm not terribly good with over $30K in lift tickets and decade waiting for loads at dropzones. When difficulty makes a 2-4 way the biggest practical formation new jumpers don't get invited and jumping by yourself is a lot like masturbating - better than nothing but not what you want to be doing. With competitive jumping you jump with your team regardless of the discipline and any newcomers (who don't fill in for your camera flyer) are irrelevant.

I don't think things are going to change until people embrace the greatest common denominator, fly flat (straight down or tracking, the later with or without a special suit), and have fun.

Especially in places that aren't blessed with impecable weather and big fast planes running continuously. It's hard enough when you can jump every 30-60 minutes (jump, pack, wait, ride, repeat) every weekend you care to until money or time runs out.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I don't see how i could not continue jumping! It is such a rush, it is the rush i always thought it would be!

After 100-1000 jumps it's not a rush (you need to jump off a bridge or try tiny parachutes for that) and skydiving becomes a social sport like square dancing with no music, better scenery, and louder clothing.

"We held hands in a circle, then alternating in a line..."

It's a lot like driving or riding in a car. When you're 16 you just want to drive. When you're 30 and stuck in rush hour traffic you just hope there's something good on the radio, although a drive through the mountains is fun, and going to the race track and driving or taking a ride in a Porsche Cup car is still exciting.

[hukturn 0]

Absolutely. The party is gone. Or rather, it is done in smaller segregated units. But, I also agree with your discussion regarding the Skydiving has changed. In fact, since I don't drink these days, I would rather invest my time in the air than at the parties. So, I do. I made six RW jumps last weekend...five with people under 100 jumps. Why? Because more experienced jumpers invested in me when I was young.
Teams are great. Cometition is fun. But, I think we have lost perspective. If you back up to 1993-1994, that is where the changes start. I was still a very young jumper. But, I was jumping with people with extremely high proficiency. Look at the World level Teams. I remember the 1993 GK 8-way teams coming out to the DZ to jump with people. Not as coaches or instructors...just as skydivers. But, where are they now? Do you know how thrilling it was to only have 100 jumps and to to 4 and 8 way with World level skydivers?
Many DZ owners have shifted gears. Thet want the new business instead of the old. They think that they already own the older skydiver business so they stop catering to the experienced jumpers. DZO's used to invest in Skydivers. Hell, they used to be skydivers. And, if they were the ones sitting on the ground because of a Tendem being sent up, they would be pissed, too. So, raise jump rates, bump loads...well, I think that we can all understand how much of this an experience jumper will accept.
Too many people forget where they came from. That is our problem. Me, I am happy with my home DZ. Absolutely love it, the people, the history, everything about it. And, I have loved my home DZ since the first day I set foot on it. But, when I visit other DZ's, I wonder how they will survive and propegate the sport.

[kkeenan 14]

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Am I really doomed to turning my back on something I love so much?

Your source for the answer to that question is to be found in the closest mirror rather than the internet.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[riggerrob 643]

More (tandem-oriented) dropzones don't have beer, bonfires, and camping after the beer light goes on.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is because DZOs are demanding much higher standards for tandem instructors ... things like showing up on time, clean, sweet-smelling, only politically-correct jokes, etc.

Also try looking at skydiving from the point of view of a professional TI. You just did a dozen jumps in hot, muggy weather, haze, gusty winds, dodging clouds, etc. Hardly any of the students arched, so you had to strain your leg muscles to arch enough for the both of you. Despite your best efforts, the videographer whined about how much you spun and how little "face time" he got.
Oh!
And when your third student dug his heels into the ground - and tried to do a face slide - and you sacrificed your sore knee to prevent it - all the DZO did was make a sarcastic comment!
Grrrrrrr!
Reach for the ice pack ....

By the time you finished packing the last tandem main, those greedy bastards had finished off the last of the pizza, so you drove home hungry, AGAIN!

And manifest promised an even busier day tomorrow, so all you want is supper and sleep. Problem is: you are too tired to cook ...

[riggerrob 643]

Interesting statistic: half the people that earn scuba licenses never bother to pick them up.

Sports like scuba, skydiving, etc. are "life list," "been there, done that" activities that people just want to do enough to earn bragging rights.
For example, I have overheard tandem students grumble about clouds, because doing a tandem jump was just one of the steps (hair, make up, new dress, beer store, etc.) on their way to bragging at a party.

The other factor is that mastering skydiving requires a considerable investment of time and energy and dollars. Even "natural athletes" require dozens or hundreds of jumps before they can earn "skygod" status.
The "entitlement generation" lack the patience and stamina to become old-school skydivers.

[ChrisL 2]

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Am I really doomed to turning my back on something I love so much?

What does it matter?

If you really lose interest, you aren't going care anyway

__

My mighty steed

[freeflyit 0]

>>The "entitlement generation" lack the patience and stamina to become old-school skydivers.<<

Please quit making generalizations about us. You "old" guys are calling us the "entitlement" generation. I guess in a way you're right cuz we are entitled like everyone else a fair share under the sun just like you got. You know, maybe the problem is not within us but within you (personally I think it's a bunch of crap either way). I read the "skydiving is dead" thread. Like seriously, you can't possibly know what you are talking about to make statements like that. Think about how that sounds, you just made a general statement about a whole population! I'm guessing that you didn't do any actual academic studies to identify any kinds of trends even with a sample that is worthy so really you have no right to say those kind of things. I'm sure the younger people here would just love to hear what you have to say about what our generation lacks.

[ChrisL 2]

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I guess in a way you're right cuz we are entitled like everyone else a fair share under the sun just like you got. .

Nobody is "entitled" to anything

Doesn't matter how old they are, what gender they are, or what race they are.

Period. No exceptions.

__

My mighty steed

[AFFI 0]

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you have no right to say those kind of things.

Serious inquiry:
Do they have freedom of speech in Canada?

I feel your frustration, I think all the recent treads about the decline and death of this sport is nonsense. At the DZ where I work at, our student program has never been as busy with solo freefall students and graduates as it is right now. As Wendy pointed out, we have a large amount of sport jumpers with 25 to 200 jumps that are eager to jump all they can, go to tunnel camps and participate in competitive skydiving at the local level.

When we have 100 tandems on the books, the boss provides the sport jumpers plenty of slots with multiple aircraft and the Otters and Caravan stay very busy with sport jumpers and solo freefall students all day long. Seriously, if there are any quality AFF instructors out there looking for a place to roost, we have never been busier; the sport is flourishing in our part of the world…

So let the opinionated talk, they are entitled to their perspective even though it has no bearing with reality on a world wide scale, skydiving is far from extinct or unpopular.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[freeflyit 0]

Fair enough

[freeflyit 0]

Of course they have freedom of speech in Canada. The guy can say what he wants, it's just he lays it down like it's a fact (especially what others lack).

>>So let the opinionated talk, they are entitled to their perspective even though it has no bearing with reality on a world wide scale, skydiving is far from extinct or unpopular.<<

Yea, you're right.

[riggerrob 643]

............
I'm guessing that you didn't do any actual academic studies to identify any kinds of trends even with a sample that is worthy so really you have no right to say those kind of things.
............
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Point taken.

However, I have been casually observing changes in skydiving over the last thirty years.
Oh! And I made a few thousand skydivers over the years, including about four hundred last year. I also shot a couple hundred tandem videos and packed 230 reserves last year.

[freeflyit 0]

Oh yea? Well I have been walking since I dunno, as far as I can remember and man have I seen a lot walking in my day. U know, I even ran and jogged and speedwalked. Now I'm going to base a theory on how different generations walk.

A littl extreme? Maybe, but here's the thing: I've done a lot of statistical studies in identifying trends, etc.. to prove or predict. Ok, you know you may have a lot of experience and I can appreciate it but you can't officially label a generation whatever you like just because you think so. I know you didn't do it officially or anything and I will stop talking about this now because like Affi said.. it is freedom of speech and it is your right and if you really believe it then believe what you want. What can I possibly say or do but live my life the way I see it fit? Or maybe I should pick up on what I'm someone says I'm lacking....hmm I'll have to think about that.

[chrismgtis 0]

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you have no right to say those kind of things.

I feel your frustration, I think all the recent treads about the decline and death of this sport is nonsense. At the DZ where I work at, our student program has never been as busy with solo freefall students and graduates as it is right now. As Wendy pointed out, we have a large amount of sport jumpers with 25 to 200 jumps that are eager to jump all they can, go to tunnel camps and participate in competitive skydiving at the local level.

When we have 100 tandems on the books, the boss provides the sport jumpers plenty of slots with multiple aircraft and the Otters and Caravan stay very busy with sport jumpers and solo freefall students all day long. Seriously, if there are any quality AFF instructors out there looking for a place to roost, we have never been busier; the sport is flourishing in our part of the world…

So let the opinionated talk, they are entitled to their perspective even though it has no bearing with reality on a world wide scale, skydiving is far from extinct or unpopular.

Ditto to everything you said.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[Sutton 0]

I think it truly just depends on your love for the sport. I'm a student aswell, and I have no intentions of quitting.

People can also run into financial situations that make skydiving difficult. I mean, after you get through a student program, then you buy gear, which ranges from 1000-4000 dollars. And ofcourse, it'll only be a matter of time before you want to downsize your canopy or something, so it can be quite a financial investment.

-Sutton

[kelpdiver 2]

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People can also run into financial situations that make skydiving difficult. I mean, after you get through a student program, then you buy gear, which ranges from 1000-4000 dollars. And ofcourse, it'll only be a matter of time before you want to downsize your canopy or something, so it can be quite a financial investment.

Once you have your rig, skydiving doesn't have to be expensive. You can go out and do a 10 jump weekend for near the cost of a single AFF jump. If you don't have to put the rig or training costs on debt, it suddenly seems like a cheap sport.

Of course, people find ways to spend a lot of money, but it's voluntary.