billvon 2,991
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Should 6 Year Olds Do Tandems? (Was: 15-year-old needs tandem)
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billeisele 130
QuoteGo to any county fair. There parents willingly let their kids on the tilt-a-whirl et al that was assembled by people ripped on crystal meth. Should the state be rounding up these kids for their own good?
i had to laugh at this one, it is true, i used to put these together, won't ride one now, the local "inspectors" would come by to "collect their fee" and give us a certificate to operate, what a joke, we used to leave critical stuff off just to see if they would catch it, you pay your money you take your chances
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.
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All those things are inherently safer than skydiving.
Even if we compare to tandem skydiving (which is statistically safer than general skydiving)?
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In addition, a tandem really has no inherent benefit to a child, whereas athletics and transportation do.
It depends on the angle you look on it. Strictly speaking, there is a lot of things which have no inherent benefit to a child. Transportation with his parents to the movies, or to the amusement park, for example - and this includes movies and amusement part itself as well. Not to mention activities like visiting McDonalds, which could be even considered harmful.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
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You're falling into the "analogy trap" form of analysis. By their very nature, analogies are almost always deficient. Thus, some issues are best analyzed uniquely, without analogies.
So how would you suggest to analyze this issue? We have an activity, which is considered dangerous by some people (like skiing, for example). We have parents allowing their children to do those things, which are considered dangerous. And now we have someone saying this should be a felony.
I'm not talking only about skydiving. When we signed up our daughter into kung fu class (which is inherently dangerous activity as well), we had to sign exactly the same waivers as I signed for skydiving. Should it be a felony as well?
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
Originally contributed by kelpdiver before the thread was split:
QuoteUnless he is suffering from a terminal illness, he doesn't NEED a tandem, he merely wants one.
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As for the 6 yo, the benefits of the tandem to the kid (rather than the parent) are close to nill, and the experience in the skydiving world with taking such small people is very limited. Seems negligent by the parents. But I'm a bit conflicted on this because my grandfather took me out on his motorcycle a bit when I was perhaps 10, and that was purely recreational as well.
Note: if you reply to the original poster or to a reply above the hijack, your thread won't get caught up in the split.
Arrive Safely
John
John
billvon 2,991
>Even if we compare to tandem skydiving (which is statistically safer than
>general skydiving)?
Yes.
>It depends on the angle you look on it. Strictly speaking, there is a lot
>of things which have no inherent benefit to a child. Transportation with his
>parents to the movies, or to the amusement park, for example.
You cannot avoid taking a child to the doctor - thus transportation is necessary. You are correct that you can reduce it, and thus reduce his risk. But there is no need for skydiving at all.
>general skydiving)?
Yes.
>It depends on the angle you look on it. Strictly speaking, there is a lot
>of things which have no inherent benefit to a child. Transportation with his
>parents to the movies, or to the amusement park, for example.
You cannot avoid taking a child to the doctor - thus transportation is necessary. You are correct that you can reduce it, and thus reduce his risk. But there is no need for skydiving at all.
bob.dino 1
QuoteAll those things are inherently safer than skydiving. In addition, a tandem really has no inherent benefit to a child, whereas athletics and transportation do.
How do you determine that doing a tandem has no inherent benefit to a child?
QuoteQuoteOf course, there's the other guy who took his 6 year old daughter up on a tandem with a specially-made harness to fit her, at another DZ.
Geez, 6 years old? That should be a felony.
Similar discussion took place some years back when a photo was published of a guy taking what appeared to be about a 5 year old...ON A BASE JUMP.
Special harness clipped into him, the pic showed a D~B deployment off of a bridge if memory serves.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Dam a kid can ride a bike without a helmet, he hits his head good chance of brain injury or death, nothing wrong with a 6 year old doing a jump with a parent or family member if it is for the right reason and the kid wants to do it.
If kids are DZ kids that is all they know.
If kids are DZ kids that is all they know.
billvon 2,991
>How do you determine that doing a tandem has no inherent benefit to a child?
Getting vaccinations, eating, and exercising has inherent objective benefits. Skydiving doesn't. You could argue that he will like it and it will make him happy and thus enrich his life etc but that's a somewhat different argument.
Getting vaccinations, eating, and exercising has inherent objective benefits. Skydiving doesn't. You could argue that he will like it and it will make him happy and thus enrich his life etc but that's a somewhat different argument.
bob.dino 1
Quote>How do you determine that doing a tandem has no inherent benefit to a child?
Getting vaccinations, eating, and exercising has inherent objective benefits. Skydiving doesn't. You could argue that he will like it and it will make him happy and thus enrich his life etc but that's a somewhat different argument.
Yup. You could also make the same arguments about a trip to McDonalds - he'll like it, but it's very bad for him. It just acts more slowly. Should taking your kid to McDonalds be a felony?
JohnMitchell 16
Hell yes. The diabetic little fat F%$#@!QuoteShould taking your kid to McDonalds be a felony?
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Should taking your kid to McDonald's be a felony?
Come on folks, these are nonsense arguments and hopefully ya'll KNOW it.
It a matter of what is 'reasonable and prudent' in the eyes of the general public, or common man.
If as many people in general society were skydivers as go to McDonald's, then it would most certainly be acceptable to 'allow' children to participate.
But the fact of the matter is we are a very small sub culture, that in the eyes of many, if not most people, are wreckless thrill seekers that have little regard for our own personal well being.
We don't hand out guns and cars to kids for a similar reason, their decision making abilities aren't developed enough to consistently do the right and proper thing...not acceptable when death is a very possible outcome.
There were a whole lot more kids playing with lawn darts than there are skydivers today, a couple kids got killed and they pulled the product...do you really want to see that kind of scrutiny focused on us?
Tandem jumping has definitely opened up a whole new 'line of communication' with the general public as far as our sports acceptance...for now.
I guarantee if another passenger slips a harness, there will be immediate and permanent measures taken to strongly regulate that area of the industry.
'WE' know what happened, why and what was done to fix the problem...but the general public doesn't care about those details.
All they see is a person paid for a carnival ride, (which is almost how we market it now) and died.
Ding up somebody's kid, and Katy bar the door!
Skydiving is NOT fool proof and safe, and if you don't recognize that you aren't giving it the respect, it AND you need.
Fuck up just a little and you can die, someone NEXT to you fucks up and you can die...any argument to the contrary is bullshit.
We do it because we have decided that the risk is worth the reward...until 51% of the voting public decides to lower the age of consent...that CHILDREN can also make that determination for themselves...we're both legally and morally bound to work within the rules as society dictates.
It only makes sense if we want to continue on the way we do.
I don't know if an adult could be charged with a felony for allowing a child to jump.
I do know that here in Texas, if a parent 'allows' a child to break the law by using drugs or alcohol, they can be charged with child endangerment and or neglect. And it can in certain circumstances be bumped up to a felony.
There are what, about 20,000 'active' skydivers in the U.S., and about 20 a year go in...I'd bet ya if one in a thousand McDonald's 'regular' eaters bought the farm, it WOULD become a felony to take your kid there!
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
>parents car - and the number of car-related fatalities is high. I'm not even
>talking about activities like riding a bike, going to kung-fu class, or even
>swimming in the backyard pool.
All those things are inherently safer than skydiving. In addition, a tandem really has no inherent benefit to a child, whereas athletics and transportation do.
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