Why night jumps have limits time?

[FlyinDawg 0]

Why does it have night jumps limit time? Can't it have like normal operate hours at dropzone? Due to airspace overnights?

Flyin' Dawg or SkyDog


"To understand is to forgive, even oneself."

[diablopilot 2]

Eh?

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[FlyinDawg 0]

Quote

Eh?

Exactly!

Flyin' Dawg or SkyDog


"To understand is to forgive, even oneself."

[skytash 0]

I think he either asking why night jumps don't happen every night or why when they do happen it's between certain hours.

I'll try to answer these questions, and if it isn't what is being asked, perhaps FlyinDawg can explain his question better.

Generally dropzones only do night jumps on full moon nights. This is because although it is a lot darker than during the day, there is some natural light. I don't think it is to do with airspace restrictions over night.

When they do have night jumps, the time slot will be set to make sure it's late enough to count as a proper night jump (starting 1 hour after sundown I think) and early enough that it doesn't cut into drinking time too much.

Hope that helps!

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[Zing 2]

Also, most dropzones have to extend the NOTAM for night jumps, and don't need or want to tie up the airspace all night when there are only one or two loads planned.

Zing Lurks

[CSpenceFLY 1]

NOTAMs do not tie up the airspace. It is a Notice To Airman. It does not prevent anyone from flying through the airspace. This is why you should look out the door on jumprun boys and girls.

Also if my memory serves me correct I don't believe a NOTAM is required for jump operations. A good idea but I don't think required.

[rmcvey 0]

Also, at some periods it gets too dark for night jumps.

[shermanator 4]

seems to me like night jumps cost more money/work too. Between Several passes per load, really working out the seperation and deployment altitudes, checking in once on the ground.

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[skyberdyber 0]

There are no real limits. The FAA requires a light that can be seen for 3 statute miles for each jumper between sunset and sunrise. As far as the FAA is concerned you could run a jump operation 24 hours a day.
The USPA BSR's require a night jump briefing within the last 60 days among other general recommendations.
Chris is correct, no NOTAM is required anywhere unless an FAA Demo Jump authorization waiver requires it.

The reasons we don't night jump all the time are:
A. The owner, pilot, and staff get tired after working for 13+ hours
B. The danger, liability, fuel usage (due to multiple passes for landing separation), and logistical difficulty all increase a lot.

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[itllclear 1]

Quote

no NOTAM is required anywhere unless an FAA Demo Jump authorization waiver requires it.

Actually, NOTAM's are required for all jumps, except military operations on military reservations.

§ 105.25 Parachute operations in designated airspace.

(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft—

(1) Over or within a restricted area or prohibited area unless the controlling agency of the area concerned has authorized that parachute operation;

(2) Within or into a Class A, B, C, D airspace area without, or in violation of the requirements of, an air traffic control authorization issued under this section;

(3) Except as provided in paragraph (c) and (d) of this section, within or into Class E or G airspace area unless the air traffic control facility having jurisdiction over the airspace at the first intended exit altitude is notified of the parachute operation no earlier than 24 hours before or no later than 1 hour before the parachute operation begins.

(b) Each request for a parachute operation authorization or notification required under this section must be submitted to the air traffic control facility having jurisdiction over the airspace at the first intended exit altitude and must include the information prescribed by §105.15(a) of this part.

(c) For the purposes of paragraph (a)(3) of this section, air traffic control facilities may accept a written notification from an organization that conducts parachute operations and lists the scheduled series of parachute operations to be conducted over a stated period of time not longer than 12 calendar months. The notification must contain the information prescribed by §105.15(a) of this part, identify the responsible persons associated with that parachute operation, and be submitted at least 15 days, but not more than 30 days, before the parachute operation begins. The FAA may revoke the acceptance of the notification for any failure of the organization conducting the parachute operations to comply with its requirements.

(d) Paragraph (a)(3) of this section does not apply to a parachute operation conducted by a member of an Armed Force within a restricted area that extends upward from the surface when that area is under the control of an Armed Force.

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[skyberdyber 0]

No, they are NOT.
You need to read more carefully because it says nothing about a NOTAM.
Nothing in the FAR's requires a NOTICE TO AIRMEN (NOTAM) for parachute operations.
This section requires notification to the controlling AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL facility and it outlines several ways you can do this depending on the particular operation.

These are very different things. If you file a NOTAM with Flight Service and jump without ATC notification (or authorization if required for the airspace) you are violating the law and the pilot can lose his/her license.

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[paulagc 0]

Without getting into the Notam discussion, here's my $ .02 (I'm the dzo, but not a pilot. I know we have a standing notam and atc on notice of our operations, Fri-Sun, sunrise to sunset, year round, within a 10 mile radius of our airport. We do have to call flight services when we are doing nightjumps, since it is outside our regular operating hours. (Please don't yell at me about my facts or lingo...me talking "pilot-speak" is like talking to a non-jumper about skydiving. {clueless} I have to rely on my chief pilots for this stuff)

The other reasons for not doing night jumps all the time are threefold in my mind:

1. I want perfect conditions---no high winds that might make for a bad spot; no clouds to try to spot around in the dark, etc.

2. They take extra planning and effort---making sure lights are available for the jumpers to carry and in the landing area, giving proper briefings, etc.

3. DZO Laziness---I'm too tired to stay at the DZ from 8:00am until 1:00am every night. I need to go home and sleep sometime (and have a beer and food sometime), so we only do them on limited occasions. With daylight savings time, our sunset isn't until almost 10:00, so, waiting an hour, you're looking at almost 11:00 to start jumping.

Paula Coody
Indiana Skydiving Academy
Goshen, Indiana

[reinhart36 0]

Quote

NOTAMs do not tie up the airspace. It is a Notice To Airman. It does not prevent anyone from flying through the airspace. This is why you should look out the door on jumprun boys and girls.

Also if my memory serves me correct I don't believe a NOTAM is required for jump operations. A good idea but I don't think required.

These are true statements, but for completeness I add this:

NOTAMs can be notifications of temporary flight/airspace restrictions. i.e., the president is coming to town for the day, and nobody is allowed to fly within 50 miles of where he is..

Incidentally, you are correct that NOTAMs are not required for jumping; they're just recommended by the FAA.

[billvon 2,991]

>You need to read more carefully because it says nothing about a NOTAM.

I think we're getting hung up on terminology here.

The jump pilot notifies ATC. ATC then issues a NOTAM.

[skyberdyber 0]

I'm sorry to be a know-it-all here, however, that is still incorrect.
Although anyone with the information required to file a NOTAM can theoretically file it, ATC does not file NOTAM's. A NOTAM is filed with a Flight Service Station (FSS) by the operator. An FSS's job is to disseminate information to pilots and controllers.

It's not just terminology. There is a huge difference. One is required by law, the other is not. One is used to notify ATC's managing administrators of what is occurring in their controlled airspace and the other notifies the general public, e.i. pilots and on duty ATC controllers.

I want to stress this to anyone reading because the jump population needs to know the correct information. The FAA does not consider it a matter of symantics.

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