Ripped off for 1300 dollars on Dropzone.com

[Dumpster 0]

mmm - You got me thinking there Phree - I'm going to dig a bit deeper into that idea.

I've had a few folks try to scam me when checking into gear. Total crap.

Question for all of y'all -

What kind of terms, conditions, precedures, etc, would be expected?

A middle man could do anything - from simply verifying that it is what it is, to going as far as doing a complete I&R, researching serial numbers in the stolen gear databases and with the manufacturers, etc. - Things that could take quite a bit if time!

Easy Does It

[LouDiamond 1]

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That is the second time in a week I have heard from people who reported abuse to HH and got no response and no apparent action...?

Rest assured, he IS aware of this and I am positive he is looking into the matter. HH is a busy man and at times otherwise engaged at far flung and remote corners of the world. When he has an answer, those people who wrote to him will undoubtedly hear from him.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[GreatGigInThSky 0]

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So far I found two scams that originated from Premier users. One is paul.countenay,

Yup! I dealt with this same exact guy. He was selling a nice rig for $1300 and says he's traveling in the UK but will pay for the foreign shipping. Fortunately I am being assisted by my instructor at Skydive Sebastian as a guide to my adventures in buying my first used rig and he smelled a scam immediately. To confirm though, we asked the seller to send the rig over to the drop zone, and he insisted on the $650 upfront first. When I asked what form of payment he would take, the seller responded with Western Union and my instructor immediately said "yup, it's a scam." I responded to the seller that I would prefer to pay through Paypal for more security and I never heard from him again. Terrible to see that my instructor was right! I was extremely lucky to have guidance from a seasoned intuitive person!!! (Thank you, Rob!)

Failure is not falling down, but refusing to get up.
- A Chinese Proverb

[kelpdiver 2]

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No, posting just eBay links will get the ad removed.

oh, ok. I can't disagree with that either - I always disliked ebay posts with no information.

[kelpdiver 2]

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And HOW do you know where to set your prices??? With eBay I do a lookup of previous auctions and base my starting price and Buy-It-Now prices based on the completed auctions that actually sold. On DZ.com, all I can look at is asking prices. I have no clue what previous items sold for, nor do I have any idea if the prices people are asking are what someone will pay.

That's a problem with craiglist too. Most of the asking prices are unrealistic and I can't believe people actually pay them. But the same is true for ebay as well - people tend to overpay.

That wouldn't be true for an auction run on DZ - with the smaller audience, the final price would vary considerable based on timing and luck. If you know the 'proper' value of an item and have an ad here for a couple weeks, you might get that. A 7 day auction, maybe not.

[floridadiver81 0]

This has nothing to do with skydiving..but everything to do with the OP's status. Dude....if it is too good to be true ITS A SCAM! I recently(3 months ago) was in the market to buy a new car..not brand new...but new to me. I looked on ebay and found what appeared to be a VERY sweet looking Acura Integra. I contact the seller and ask him how much he wanted for it straight up. He told me 2000 dollars. I was like wth? I know honda's and Acura'a VERY well and know theres no way in hell that specific car could be selling for that cheap. Looked immaculate...had the high performance motor(B18C1 for you gearheads). That motor swap alone is worth 2500-3000. I told the seller that i wanted the address of where the car is being kept because i had a friend that lived in the same town(thanks to dz.com i found someone in the same neighborhood) so that they can come by and check out the car. Never heard back from the seller again. The listing was closed early and the seller deleted and cancelled that ebay account. I have learned when buying higher priced items...to ask very specific question about the item. If they have pictures of it ask them to take a picture of it in a certain position....or ahve them write someothing on a piece of paper in front of the item...then take the pictures. If im buying something for a a couple hundred or 1000's of dollars...i want to make sure its legit and i want to make sure the seller actually has the item. There are too many scammers out there...and sadly..there will always be people that fall for them because they arent educated on the safety of buying anything online.

To the op. I know it sucks to be in your situation as 1300 dollars is a large chunk of money. I really hope you have learned from this situation and i hope you read my story and become more vigiliant with buying stuff in the future. I hope you can somehow get your money back too!!!!

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[chrismgtis 0]

Ouch. That sucks.

If the seller won't ship to a rigger for inspection first, don't buy it. It's not worth losing that much money.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[peckerhead 0]

I have made dozens of transactions through the classifieds here on DZ.com and so far have not had a problem. I have bought and sold several big ticket items including canopies and containers. I have a few guidelines that I follow.

As a buyer:

1. The item must have a complete description including DOM, serial #, make, model, number of jumps, etc. If it is a reserve canopy I want to know the number of repacks. It always amazes me when I see something listed that I might be interested in and there are no details. They might say something like "email me for more info or pictures" Sorry, I don't have time for that, if you were serious about selling it you should have provided that in the first place.

2. Photos; In general I won't even look at it if there is no picture. I have made exceptions like buying a packed reserve from a fellow rigger. (he didn't want to unpack it to take the picture) A while back I saw a rig for sale and the photo did not match the description, I could tell right off it was a scam.

3. Sellers profile; no profile = no sale. I want to know who I am dealing with, what part of the country they are from, where do they jump, how long have they been in the sport, are they an instructor or maybe a rigger? I may know people they jump with. I may even look at their forum activity and read their posts. Do they have a webpage with more info?

4. Compare the serial # against the stolen gear data base. Do this EVERY time.

5. I only buy from sellers in the US. It may be a legitimate ad but international shipping costs and times usually negate any savings. Language barriers also make comunication difficult. Just not worth it to me. I have made an exception a time or two with Canadian sellers

6. Method of payment; If I don't know the person it is paypal only with a credit card. Never send a western union instant transfer. I would only consider a check or money order to a known seller. (dealer, rigger, dropzone, etc.)

7. Returns; will they take it back if it is not as described? Do they stand behind the sale?


As a Seller:

Pretty much the same thing in reverse.

1. Provide a complete description

2. Provide a link to my website for more detailed photos and information. I also have an option to buy it now securely with paypal on my site.

3.Provide a detailed profile with contact information including a phone number. The buyer can talk to me directly and get references if they want. I want them to know I am a real person. Skydiving, rigging, and gear sale is my only income right now and I don't want any bad publicity.

4. Offer a 100% no risk money back guarantee. If they are not happy send it back and I will refund the money.

5. Shipping; Provide an accurate shipping quote and ship in a timely manner. I do all my shipping with UPS ground with insurance and tracking numbers. Signature confirmation on delivery. I only ship to the US. Sorry, but the only time I have been burned selling gear on the internet was shipping out of the country, I just won't do it anymore. If the buyer is paying with paypal I will only ship to a confirmed address, if they do not have a confirmed address I don't take paypal.

6. Get paid first! I accept credit cards through paypal. I will also take checks or money orders but that will delay shipping times. If someone wants me to ship to a 3rd party that is fine. I will ship it to your drop zone, your rigger or even your mom if you want but not until it is paid for first. If you are not happy with the sale you can return it for a full refund minus return shipping. If I send it to joe blow rigger without payment there is no guarantee I will ever get paid or get my gear back. I would never consider doing this unless I personally knew the 3rd party involved. It is just not worth it.

In general know the seller, get references, ask questions. It would be great if DZ.com had some sort of classifieds feed back score system. Mine would be 100%

[HALO1 0]

I to, like Peckerhead, have made many transactions on DZ.com (buying and selling). Never had a problem as I always use Escrow.com. If buyer or seller refuses to use escrow, I move on.

Don't be sexist… Broads hate that.

[Thunderbow 1]

Here is an exchange I had with Paul Countenay:

ME:Something is wrong. Wrong pics? Wrong price w/wrong pics? Wrong description w/wrong pics?If the description and price are right and the pics are wrong, I want first chance at it.

P.C.:Everything is correct in my ad and I`m glad you`re apreciating the low price. I`m looking for a fast deal. That`s why I`m selling it so cheap. So if you`re interested, let me know.

ME:Yes, I am interested, but still need a couple of things clarified. The orange and black canopy in the picture says "Falcon" on the end. The reserve flap has velcro which I can't imagine a 2005 Vector 3 having. And I don't see any rings for the articulation on the harness. I am truly not trying to be a smart ass, I just am confused. What size person would the rig fit as I am thinking of this for my daughter who is 5' 7" and 120 lbs. Also would the main tray take a larger canopy?

P.C.:I put those pics because my rig has the same colors like the one in the picture and I have my rig packed in a box and ready for shipping. I
didn`t wanted to open the box just to make some photos so I looked over the Internet for one that looks almost exactely like mine and this one does. The only thing is that the one from the pics in the ad is and
older Vector 1 with no RSL and the main isn`t a crossfire2. I think it`s a Falcon, not sure. Anyway, my rig has the same colors and the same
model. So if you like how the one in the pics looks, then you`ll love the one you want to buy. As I said before, the rig is ready for shipping. I`m 5'8 and 155 lbs and the rig fits me great so I`m sure your
doughter will have no problems with her size. The main tray can take up to a 190 sq ft main.
I hope you`re interested. END OF EXCHANGE

The thing that bugs me is the guy sounds like a skydiver. Not that there aren't crooked skydivers out there.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am.

[BillyVance 34]

He's an asshole out to scam people. But I do wonder where he came up with all the descriptions and terminology though...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[brabzzz 0]

You would not have to lurk here that long to pick up the basic terminology. A quick read of how things work and a browse through all the classifieds will arm them with all the catchphrases required. Often they'll just recycle an ad from severl months ago. We're more vulnerable because we just flat out don't expect scammers here and there's a higher level of trust. But we're their perfect target - 'small' high value items.

I won an auction on eBay for 2 rigs. I saw my old rig relisted months after i'd sold it. I won another rig on eBay. They were all scams. I'd like to think i'm pretty heads up on this so they hit me as really obvious after i'd actually made contact with them, but not everyone sees the telltale signs as they're not obvious unless you've see them dozens of times before.

There's no substitute for ringing them up, requesting more pics of obscure things (the pilot chute attachement point...), ask if they'll do cash on delivery etc . No Western Union. Ever. The 'closed box and packed' argument never washes. It's $1300, get it out the f*cking box and repack it again man! If you can, meet them at a DZ. If they make too many spelling mistakes or grammatical errors, it's a scam. If it's too cheap, it's a scam. If they want to overpay you (or some other odd arrangement) it's a scam.

You can never be 100% sure, especially if you're sending money up front. If in doubt, leave it. It's not the end of the world. There are 50-60 new bits of advertised gear here daily.

Sorry you got done dude. May the scammer get backed over by a bus - bad karma and all.

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Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[Kynan1 0]

Update us on how the money refund/rig goes. Scammers are the lowest lifeform on earth. I've sold a parachute on here and have another PD 210 for sale. So far, no problems, but I am the seller, which usually helps..haha
Good luck though.

[Trent 0]

I am 100% on calling out Classified scammers just by looking at their atrocious grammar and awkward spelling. Maybe you just get to recognize it after a while.

Also look for anyone who wants to buy but will arrange shipping for you. Or ANYONE wanting Western Union.

Oh, hello again!

[OSOK 0]

Another tip would be using a credit card to pay. It's much easier to argue a claim if you have a big company to back you up, and it's much easier to argue you paying the money than asking for money back. Of course, this would require the seller to have like a paypal account or something but if they're selling stuff worth several thousands of dollars I don't see why it should be a big deal to have an account.

[MooU 0]

Almost all my gear is used. I've bought used jumpsuits, free fly suit, helmet and a helmet bag and gear bags on dropzone.com and never had a problem. Maybe it helps that these are small ticket items or that these are women's sizes...I don't know.

Maybe we could have regional people or regional DZ's act as clearing houses for big ticket items. That way at least we could identify who is selling to whom if the deal goes bad. Also, it would be a barrier for internet scammers because the 'goods' would have to show up at the clearing house before any money was exchanged. I wouldn't mind paying an extra $100 bucks to get a clean deal on a $1300.00 rig. And the $100 could be split between buyer and seller. JMHO

TPM #59 POPS #9849 PMS #477

[brabzzz 0]

On that note, anyone wanting to use an escrow service/site is a almost certainly a scammer too.
Obviously a trusted rigger is another matter, but beware all the same.

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Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com