popsjumper 2 #1 April 22, 2007 What is the general concensus on the door being open or closed on takeoff? Arguements for Open: Pilot chutes out the odor is a myth. Too hot for the TMs in the summer. A good gear check prevents a PC out the door. Plane off the runway with fire could jam the door if closed. If you're afraid to sit by an open door on takeoff, sit up front. Arguements for Closed: Prevent PC out the door. 1000 ft of altitude in not unbearable (1-2 minutes?) Despite good gear checks PCs could be lost in on-board shuffling. I'm sure you can think of other reasons supporting either.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #2 April 22, 2007 Can't an open door negatively effect flight in the event of an engine failure during take off?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #3 April 22, 2007 I would say it depends on the aircraft. If you are worried about parachutes deploying then you have other issues to deal with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #4 April 22, 2007 Open door means smelly farts go away faster! ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkeater 0 #5 April 22, 2007 Why would you expose yourself to one more safety risk that can easily be avoided? What happens if the door is open and the pilot has to make a sudden maneuver in the air? Sure you should be wearing your seatbelt, but if you fell out you'd be hanging in who knows what position. Keep the door closed for a minute or two is not that big of a sacrifice. Suck it up and be safe.Muff Brother #4026 Loco Zapatos Rodriguez SCR #14793 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #6 April 22, 2007 QuoteCan't an open door negatively effect flight in the event of an engine failure during take off? Yes it can; it adds drag. This is the be all and end all to the question in my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #7 April 22, 2007 Pilot chutes out the odor is a myth. *** I had on my old hardrive a picture of a cessna 206 or possibly a beaver (cant remember which) that was missing quite a bit of the back of the door area due to a pilot chute escaping and taking the jumper with it.... personally other than expelling the stinky farts there isnt a really good reason. I have been on an otter where a pilot chute fell out and was noticed before the door was opened.. I have been on a cessna 206 where a TI had the reserve fire as he was hooking up the student... personally I am more comfortable with the door remaining closed untill just prior to exit. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #8 April 22, 2007 I have been at places where they let it stay up and places where they mandate it be closed. Personally, I don't see any reason in the world why you can't keep it cracked a foot for circulation. The people saying "suck it up" are clearly not the ones stuck up in the front of the plane on EVERY skydive like I am. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #9 April 22, 2007 > What is the general concensus on the door being open or closed on takeoff? Problems with an open door: 1) Escaped PC can cause a jumper-in-tow and bring the plane down 2) Poorly secured jumper can fall out at an unsurvivable altitude 3) During an engine fire/containment failure you can get debris and flame in the cabin 4) During ordinary takeoffs you can get gravel kicked into the cabin 5) During an off-field landing/crash you can get debris shot into the cabin 6) Can cause slower-than-expected climb, and poor single-engine performance Generally the question comes down to safety vs comfort. Every DZ will make a slightly different tradeoff there. At most DZ's I jump at, it's pretty much always door closed until 1000/1500 feet, can be "cracked" after rotation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #10 April 22, 2007 Somehow a PC gets out at 400 feet... goes out the door... jumper's wearing his seatbelt... At best the jumper gets cut in half and taken out the door. At worst the plane goes down and kills everybody onboard. I'll sit in the heat for 2 minutes.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #11 April 22, 2007 I witnessed a reserve pop right before rotation. The jumper was sitting on the back bench of an otter right next to the door and slouched down to get comfy. His reserve fell to the floor as he leaned forward to see what happened... just as we got airborne. It was about 95 degrees that day. The door was closed. Another jumper grabbed it and got it all collected. The jumpers reserve pin hooked the open area ledge. I think it was a Javelin container. Zing should also post again what happens to an aircraft that looses an engine with the door up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morten 0 #12 April 22, 2007 Quote Open door means smelly farts go away faster! Thats probably what the original poster meant by "Pilot chutes out the odor" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #13 April 22, 2007 Three things to add: Peckerhead raised the question of type of plane – Grand Caravan D22369 raised the mangled 206 – I believe that pic was an incident from altitude? Please correct if wrong. The question here is about at takeoff. (I might add takeoff to an altitude where one could conceivably get out and survive.) Grimmie raised Zing’s possible input…I would like to see that. So far, I see majority of “keep it closed”.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelmullins 81 #14 April 22, 2007 The door needs to be closed or the air-conditioner will not operate properly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrightskyguy 1 #15 April 22, 2007 QuoteThe door needs to be closed or the air-conditioner will not operate properly. ***As always, I like how you think. John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andybr6 0 #16 April 22, 2007 Where I jump we usually have a Turbo Let 410 in the summer months. The rule with that aircraft is the door has to stay open until 1,500ft. I believe that this is because the door is not all that easy to open - it is hinged and opens inwards like a gate. So if you do crash after take off and the door is closed you would have a hell of a job getting out. I guess my point is that some aircraft may have 'eccentricities' that necessitate having the door open on take off. ------------------------------------------------ "All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #17 April 22, 2007 Ah yes! The HPC Let. All towards the front while we struggle to close the door Nice aircraft though. Ill be down again when it arrives Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andybr6 0 #18 April 22, 2007 LOL yeah a great plane but a sod of a door, still nice and big when you do get it open and you get a nice view if you r sitting down near the open door. ------------------------------------------------ "All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #19 April 22, 2007 Its cool sitting by an open door on take off, if a little bit scary. I love the Let though. I'll see more of Headcorn the second I teach my lazy ass how to pack because getting help there is always major effort at a weekend unfortunately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #20 April 22, 2007 QuoteWhat is the general concensus on the door being open or closed on takeoff? Arguements for Open: Pilot chutes out the odor is a myth. Wanna bet? It's been seen before. Too hot for the TMs in the summer. Suck it up cupcake A good gear check prevents a PC out the door. Shit happens Plane off the runway with fire could jam the door if closed. If you're afraid to sit by an open door on takeoff, sit up front. Arguements for Closed: Prevent PC out the door. 1000 ft of altitude in not unbearable (1-2 minutes?) Despite good gear checks PCs could be lost in on-board shuffling. I'm sure you can think of other reasons supporting either. Door stays closed until the pilot says so and you're high enough that you're willing to jump.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skytash 0 #21 April 22, 2007 except on planes that don't have inflight skydiving doors. Similar to the Let, there are some planes I've jumped out of in the past where doors had to be either open for take of, or just didn't exist in the first place when the plane was set up for skydiving. I think, whatever the pilot says goes. If that means you are a bit hot for a few minutes in the summer, or even freezing for a bit in the British summer , get over it. tash Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #22 April 22, 2007 You could crash if you have an engine failure on takeoff and the drag causes the pilot to lose control. We all might be thinking of the Twin Otter at Sullivan but I have my opinions about another crash that involved jumpers leaving during an engine failure. It was a 205 and people tried to leave at about 400 feet or so. The CG shift, the open door I believe all played a part in the pilot losing control. It's not just twin engine aircraft I'm worried about losing control. C-205 Fatal Celina, OH May 9, 1999 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X18790&key=1Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites D22369 0 #23 April 22, 2007 D22369 raised the mangled 206 – I believe that pic was an incident from altitude? Please correct if wrong.*** I believe your correct that it occured at altitude, and it could occur at takeoff or shortly thereafter (sub 1500') but if the parachute entangles the tail at a low altitude, its most likely going down with everyone on board with no chance to save themselves, our sport has enough risks, I would prefer a few minutes of heat and farts to adding this possibility. - some of you all are damned stinky!! but... dead lasts sooo longRoy Edit to add= If someone still has this pic or another showing the damage to the airframe I hope you will post it, I lost it when my hardrive crashed, and its really quite impressive when you realise it was a persons body that did it. They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zing 2 #24 April 22, 2007 My opinion ... there's always at least one idiot onboard who's trying to kill all of us ... unless I get to do it first.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingDuck 0 #25 April 23, 2007 Every DZ I have been to has kept the door closed until 1000 ft. I don't have any problem with it, for me under 1k is the scariest part of the whole flight. Even in a 182 its only about 1 min. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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andybr6 0 #16 April 22, 2007 Where I jump we usually have a Turbo Let 410 in the summer months. The rule with that aircraft is the door has to stay open until 1,500ft. I believe that this is because the door is not all that easy to open - it is hinged and opens inwards like a gate. So if you do crash after take off and the door is closed you would have a hell of a job getting out. I guess my point is that some aircraft may have 'eccentricities' that necessitate having the door open on take off. ------------------------------------------------ "All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #17 April 22, 2007 Ah yes! The HPC Let. All towards the front while we struggle to close the door Nice aircraft though. Ill be down again when it arrives Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andybr6 0 #18 April 22, 2007 LOL yeah a great plane but a sod of a door, still nice and big when you do get it open and you get a nice view if you r sitting down near the open door. ------------------------------------------------ "All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #19 April 22, 2007 Its cool sitting by an open door on take off, if a little bit scary. I love the Let though. I'll see more of Headcorn the second I teach my lazy ass how to pack because getting help there is always major effort at a weekend unfortunately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 April 22, 2007 QuoteWhat is the general concensus on the door being open or closed on takeoff? Arguements for Open: Pilot chutes out the odor is a myth. Wanna bet? It's been seen before. Too hot for the TMs in the summer. Suck it up cupcake A good gear check prevents a PC out the door. Shit happens Plane off the runway with fire could jam the door if closed. If you're afraid to sit by an open door on takeoff, sit up front. Arguements for Closed: Prevent PC out the door. 1000 ft of altitude in not unbearable (1-2 minutes?) Despite good gear checks PCs could be lost in on-board shuffling. I'm sure you can think of other reasons supporting either. Door stays closed until the pilot says so and you're high enough that you're willing to jump.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytash 0 #21 April 22, 2007 except on planes that don't have inflight skydiving doors. Similar to the Let, there are some planes I've jumped out of in the past where doors had to be either open for take of, or just didn't exist in the first place when the plane was set up for skydiving. I think, whatever the pilot says goes. If that means you are a bit hot for a few minutes in the summer, or even freezing for a bit in the British summer , get over it. tash Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #22 April 22, 2007 You could crash if you have an engine failure on takeoff and the drag causes the pilot to lose control. We all might be thinking of the Twin Otter at Sullivan but I have my opinions about another crash that involved jumpers leaving during an engine failure. It was a 205 and people tried to leave at about 400 feet or so. The CG shift, the open door I believe all played a part in the pilot losing control. It's not just twin engine aircraft I'm worried about losing control. C-205 Fatal Celina, OH May 9, 1999 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X18790&key=1Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #23 April 22, 2007 D22369 raised the mangled 206 – I believe that pic was an incident from altitude? Please correct if wrong.*** I believe your correct that it occured at altitude, and it could occur at takeoff or shortly thereafter (sub 1500') but if the parachute entangles the tail at a low altitude, its most likely going down with everyone on board with no chance to save themselves, our sport has enough risks, I would prefer a few minutes of heat and farts to adding this possibility. - some of you all are damned stinky!! but... dead lasts sooo longRoy Edit to add= If someone still has this pic or another showing the damage to the airframe I hope you will post it, I lost it when my hardrive crashed, and its really quite impressive when you realise it was a persons body that did it. They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #24 April 22, 2007 My opinion ... there's always at least one idiot onboard who's trying to kill all of us ... unless I get to do it first.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingDuck 0 #25 April 23, 2007 Every DZ I have been to has kept the door closed until 1000 ft. I don't have any problem with it, for me under 1k is the scariest part of the whole flight. Even in a 182 its only about 1 min. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
