Door Open On takeoff?

[DSE 5]

Isn't the bottom line always be what the pilot prefers?
Our pilots all want the door closed at least 3/4 on takeoff, but allow for 1/4 open so the vidiots can catch the takeoff.

[billvon 2,991]

> Isn't the bottom line always be what the pilot prefers?

Generally the DZO sets rules like this, often after consultation with the pilots.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Isn't the bottom line always be what the pilot prefers?
Our pilots all want the door closed at least 3/4 on takeoff, but allow for 1/4 open so the vidiots can catch the takeoff.

What is the point of that?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[simplyputsi 0]

I've been on a few loads where the door was left open for I don't know what reason.

I was not given a reason why it was left open this weekend, and if it was because of the heat then shit I'd hate to see what happens when it's actually hot out.

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Isn't the bottom line always be what the pilot prefers?

Hmmmm...pilots may/may not be fully aware of the safety issues involved other than what directly impacts the flight of the aircraft.

How about the pilots that are very wishy-washy on exactly what they want...sometimes it seems to be a matter of who screams the loudest rather than knowledge.

One day they want door closed to 2000 ft because they say an open door affects instrument readings. (will any of you pilots comment on the instruments, please?)
A couple of weeks later they say 1000 ft is OK.
Then they say open on take-off is OK...wtf?

Different pilots, different aircraft, different procedures.
I'm as cornfused as a new-born student.


on the other hand...

Big boy rules:
You know what the issues are. Do your shit to prevent the problems from happening and jump.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rehmwa 2]

Closed until you are willing to jump - 1 or 2K, but then, for cripes sake, open it all the way and leave it open at least 2 thousand feet higher than you normally would. Nothing worse than a pansy closing the door too early on a hot, humid day.

Crack it a foot is worse than open all the way in the case of a lost PC

suck it up - safety vs comfort is a crappy tradeoff when the safety portion is so huge and the comfort bit is so pissy

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Nickkk 0]

Quote

Open door means smelly farts go away faster!

Doesnt this just shoot the stank up to the pilot???

What do you do when someone throws a big planet at you?
Throw your pilot chute in defense!

[popsjumper 2]

Still...So far, I see large majority of “keep it closed'.

It's good to know that my current logic/knowlege is not so far off-base as compared to the general population as represented by this small sample. My mentors taught me well, I think...thanks Gary S. and Rick W. and John D. and Mike G.

Thanks for your input...all of you.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[78RATS 0]

rather be hot

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[popsjumper 2]

...same for the surround-sound...

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DSE 5]

Talking with our pilot today, his take is that as pilot of the aircraft, what he says is law.
At our DZ, doesn't really matter, I guess, because that's simply the rule; Door mostly closed on takeoff due to the induced drag. he prefers the door completely closed, but is willing to allow slight opening for vidiots. Door is closed until around 5k, where it's partially opened again for vidiots, then closed again. Door isn't opened til jump run due to drag on our King, as per pilot's orders. It's not that hot in the aircraft, even in August when the temps are in the low 100's.

[popsjumper 2]

"One day they want door closed to 2000 ft because they say an open door affects instrument readings. (will any of you pilots comment on the instruments, please?) "

I stand corrected...the pilot was addressing two different airplanes where one is affected and the other is not.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[diverds 0]

Quote

Our pilots all want the door closed at least 3/4 on takeoff, but allow for 1/4 open so the vidiots can catch the takeoff.

If the door is even cracked a couple inches it's enough for a hackey handle to get under it. If a pilot chute gets outside and that jumper is still wearing their seatbelt everybody dies.

When you're flying with me the door needs to be completely closed until seatbelts are removed. After that I don't really care.

-Dave

Skydive Radio

[skyberdyber 0]

In an engine failure situation an open door will absolutely increase drag.

Back in 2002 SDA had an engine failure on one of Fayard's Twin Otters seconds after takeoff. Everyone was constantly breaking my rules about the door being closed and the pilot was not much help in enforcement. When the engine failed, THE FIRST THING the people in the back were scrambling to do was close the door. Causing more chaos and affecting CG. After that, the door stayed closed, no matter how much the fat guys in back wanted it open.

Quote

Plane off the runway with fire could jam the door if closed

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. #1 planes have an emergency exit on the opposite side for this reason. #2, you morons break my damn roll up door every season in normal operation, you'll be able to kick it off the track in a crash if you want. I even have a placard that says to do so.

http://www.skydiveatlanta.com
http://www.musiccityskydiving.com

[popsjumper 2]

Thanks, Trey...I feel much more comfortable than normal with you as pilot.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[parapilot 0]

Quote

"One day they want door closed to 2000 ft because they say an open door affects instrument readings. (will any of you pilots comment on the instruments, please?) "

I stand corrected...the pilot was addressing two different airplanes where one is affected and the other is not.

Most the important readings are taken from the pitot static tube, located on wing or tailplane and feed to the instruments by tubes, so i can't see it effecting anything. Maybe the VSI in the flasks are inside... but i think its a bit of an excuse....

[popsjumper 2]

Thanks for your reply.

As was explained to me by the pilot about open doors:

Short-body airplane - burble of low-pressure air caused by open door is large enough to reach the instrument panel and screw up readings.

Long-body aircraft - burble is not long enough to reach the instrument panel.

I should have included that info in the post you quoted...sorry.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[parapilot 0]

They are all sealed so it should not effect them regardless of cockpit pressure change. If they were not a sealed system, they wouldnt work!! I'll try to get a photo of the tube workings next time the tech's are working on our aircraft.

[billvon 2,991]

>If they were not a sealed system, they wouldnt work!

Uh - if they WERE a sealed system they wouldn't work. They are exposed to ambient pressure air through the static port; this port provides the pressure for the altimeter and VSI. It also provides the reference pressure for the airspeed indicator. (Airspeed = pressure difference between pitot tube and static port.)

Often opening doors/windows can affect the pressure around the static port, thus causing (usually slight) errors in altitude or airspeed. When using the alternate static port (which is vented inside the cockpit) this difference can be quite severe.

[parapilot 0]

But the static source is taken from the pressure head, outside the cockpit. Hence pitot static tube. The instrument is sealed with the two tubes running to the pressure head. Thats how it is on all the aircraft i fly, maybe you guys use a different system? Does your pressure head have little holes around the side, aswell as a hole in the front for dynamic?

[billvon 2,991]

> But the static source is taken from the pressure head, outside the cockpit.

Right. And on small aircraft, opening a door changes (slightly) the airflow around the aircraft and thus the pressure the static port sees. It's like the transient altitude change you see when you slip hard - you're yawing the static port more or less into the wind, so the pressure changes a bit.

[riggerrob 643]

If static ports are aft of the door, opening that door changes airflow. confusing instruments.

[riggerrob 643]

At Pitt Meadows, we always close the door for takeoff. Above 1,000 feet, you may open it 1/4 or 1/3, any more than that, we get a nasty vibration. Oddly, people near the door cannot feel the vibration, but people in the front of the cabin get really annoyed.
Above 6,000, we close the door and wait for permission from the pilot before opening it again. That permission is only granted after air traffic controllers clear us to drop.

For the same reason, only pilots are allowed to open doors on our Cessnas and only they have received permission from ATC.

[78RATS 0]

2cents:

In event of Engine Loss.....YOU WANT THAT DOOR OPEN BEFORE CRASH
LANDING!
THAT IS CERTAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!
After planes crashes.....airframe "buckles" , resulting in door STUCK
CLOSED! everyone dead.
OPEN DOOR PRIOR TO IMPACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[billvon 2,991]

>OPEN DOOR PRIOR TO IMPACT!

I would tend to disagree.

1) If you open the door at the last minute, you may turn a controllable aircraft into an uncontrollable one, resulting in a fatal crash. The aircraft may be at full power on its remaining engine and flying very close to Vmc; that's the worst possible time to open the door.

2) During a crash landing you don't want tree limbs entering the cabin. That would be bad.

During a crash of a cessna (or equivalent aircraft) it's common to crack the door; that prevents trapping of the door in the frame if the frame buckles, but still acts as a barrier to tree limbs/fences etc. In otters, it's fairly easy to kick the door out after landing (it's happened accidentally once or twice) and there are three alternate exits if that's stuck.