rehmwa 2 #51 April 24, 2007 Quote>OPEN DOOR PRIOR TO IMPACT! I would tend to disagree. You both make compelling arguments: On the one hand, you make a couple rational points. On the other hand, 78Rats used all caps. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #52 April 24, 2007 sorry - dont want to burn. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #53 April 24, 2007 > sorry - dont want to burn. I recall an old friend of mine who refused to wear a seatbelt, so that if he was in an auto accident he would be "thrown clear" of the resulting fire. Fortunately his scheme was never tested in reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeromobile 0 #54 April 24, 2007 You guys forgot about what the FAA requires. On the modification paperwork (337 in aircraft speak), in my aircraft, the FAA calls the plexglass door a windbreak. The paperwork requires that the windbreak be open for takeoff and landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #55 April 25, 2007 That's interesting. I assume it was a simple way of approving an in-flight door on a plane certified for flight with the door removed? That way, the FAA doesn't have to worry about how the door affects egress or takeoff and landing performance, since it's the same as not having a door at all... What kind of plane? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #56 April 25, 2007 hmmm... I love the thrill of takeoff while sitting next to an open door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeromobile 0 #57 April 25, 2007 1953 Cessna 195 with a modified 450 hp engine. When the 337 was filled out it did not include any restrictions. The FAA added a supplement page full of requirements. Having the door open is one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #58 April 25, 2007 I was on the load with you by the door and you closed it right before take off (which I knew to be standard protocol most anywhere I go), and a TM in full gear came stomping from the front through a nearly full load and yanks it open and cussed you out. Damn, I could hear him, believe it or not! I wondered what the hell that was all about. I can understand the hot factor up front, but don't most planes have a vent up front to let cool air in? Anyway, this was mid-April, hardly anywhere near the hottest point of the year. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #59 April 25, 2007 Quote ...and a TM in full gear came stomping from the front through a nearly full load and yanks it open and cussed you out. Damn, I could hear him, believe it or not! I wondered what the hell that was all about. That is a great way to put forward a professional atmosphere for the customers!!! "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4201 0 #60 April 25, 2007 I don't have a problem with open doors, unless it's cold. I guess if your a dzo, you might be concerned about loss of fuel do to drag. But then again, i don't really know. I just know that when it's hot, I like open doors, and so do TM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #61 April 25, 2007 QuoteI guess if your a dzo, you might be concerned about loss of fuel do to drag. And loss of plane to crash.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #62 April 25, 2007 I would take limbs and fence coming into plane ANYDAY VS. Being stuck in Burning inferno. Also: "short final" to Crash procedures call for: Engines Shut Down Mixtures OFF Fuel Selectors OFF Now there is NO Zero Side Slip..... Of course you don't open door a 1000 feet up.... you have to wait until last 100 feet or so.... also: What if everyone is injured and has broken limbs and backs, etc. Who is going to step up to door....and kick it out? Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #63 April 25, 2007 >Engines Shut Down >Mixtures OFF >Fuel Selectors OFF >Now there is NO Zero Side Slip..... ?? An off-field landing is where you would likely see the MOST sideslip as a pilot tries to make it into a last-minute clearing! >What if everyone is injured and has broken limbs and backs, etc. Prevention of broken limbs/backs/neck by keeping seatbelts on and the cabin secure is preferable with allowing those things to happen - and dealing with them after the crash. As I've said before, if you're talking about an Otter door, there are three other exits. Odds of all of them being blocked are very, very low. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4201 0 #64 April 25, 2007 I guess i should not post in here anymore according to someone, cause i'm dumb and don't know what the hell i'm talking about. Sorry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #65 April 25, 2007 me too. haha. My escape plan: DOOR Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
giuseppe17 0 #66 April 25, 2007 I'm with you brother... I'll open the door just before impact.... And everyone can chew me out from the burn ward. hahahaha Just kidding... Everything is "situational" ....hard to have the perfect answer. But this is good topic / argument....High Speed...Low Drag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
giuseppe17 0 #67 April 25, 2007 I guess flight training is different from place to place... But with loss of ONE engine, the pilot is already in Zero Side Slip. I was taught Never to "Forward-Slip" (not to be confused with zero-side-slip) the plane at low altitudes or when on short final. That creates the most drag, (to loose altitude) and the least amount of lift. Also, you have to deal with the cards you are dealt, not jocking (making deep banks) at last minute to try to make clearings, ..risk of stall. Just relaying what I was taught. High Speed...Low Drag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #68 April 25, 2007 >But with loss of ONE engine, the pilot is already in Zero Side Slip. Once he has stabilized the aircraft - true. However, most aircraft will see a pretty strong yaw in one direction the moment power is lost. >I was taught Never to "Forward-Slip" (not to be confused with >zero-side-slip) the plane at low altitudes or when on short final. When faced with the alternatives of overshooting a clearing and running into the back of a mall or sideslipping to get in, I think most pilots will slip. It's how the pilot of a 767 in Canada got his powerless airliner onto a small strip in the middle of nowhere when he lost power. No injuries, minimal damage to the plane. >Also, you have to deal with the cards you are dealt, not jocking (making >deep banks) at last minute to try to make clearings, ..risk of stall. As you know, sideslips do not involve deep banks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
giuseppe17 0 #69 April 25, 2007 Right on..... I hear ya.... I know sideslips don't involve banks. But was just making point that sometimes you are dealt a bad hand of cards, and one cannot make drastic moves to try to make a clearing. (speaking: loosing engine during take-off and climb out, low to ground, slow speed, etc. / if at high altitude, then yes...I would slip a little to make a field, for sure) An example would be..... When watching a canopy accuracy competition, sometimes people are soooo "fixed" on making the target, they forget to fly the canopy, resulting in a wipe-out. hahahaha (fun to watch though) cooool Brother......peace out.High Speed...Low Drag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #70 April 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteCan't an open door negatively effect flight in the event of an engine failure during take off? Yes it can; it adds drag. This is the be all and end all to the question in my mind. I am in 100% agreement. I HATE open doors on take off no matter how hot it gets. If the pilot looses an engine I'd rather have the forces working FOR us instead of against us. edit: Of course cracking the door a few inches is acceptable IMO. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #71 April 25, 2007 QuoteI am in 100% agreement. I HATE open doors on take off no matter how hot it gets. If the pilot looses an engine I'd rather have the forces working FOR us instead of against us. edit: Of course cracking the door a few inches is acceptable IMO. That's interesting. I have started skydiving from an An-2. The door was open time to time on hot summers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #72 April 25, 2007 QuoteAs I've said before, if you're talking about an Otter door, there are three other exits. Odds of all of them being blocked are very, very low. 5 if you count the pilot and co-pilot doors.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverds 0 #73 April 25, 2007 QuoteOf course cracking the door a few inches is acceptable IMO Again, a few inches is all it takes for a pilot chute to sneak out. If that jumper is wearing their seatbelt things could get really ugly for everyone in a hurry. There's an argument being made here about the added drag of the door being open which is minimal. Now imagine 120-200 sq feet of nylon in tow. For this reason when I'm flying the door stays closed until seatbelts are removed. I know it gets hot back there in the summer but safety needs to come over comfort and it doesn't take that long to get to 1000 feet. Once you're there remove your seatbelts and open the door as wide as you want. Skydive Radio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #74 April 25, 2007 Quoteedit: Of course cracking the door a few inches is acceptable IMO. crack it a little, open it all the way, I don't care. But not until past 1 or 2 K feet altitude and ALL the seatbelts are off. Certainly not before then. I'm lax on this too. But it doesn't make it right. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #75 April 26, 2007 You won't hear me argue against keeping it entirely closed to 1k and all the seatbelts are off.Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
