Canopy control simulation program

[MWGemini 0]

Does anyone know of any canopy control simulation programs? I remember reading an article about a virtual reality system that I believe PD was working on, but I've been unable to find any software on the net that is anywhere near realistic or useful.

I've toyed with the idea of writing my own by modifying a 3d game engine (UT2k4 if anyone is interested and would like to help), and although it probably wouldn't be beyond my abilities, I don't really have the time or energy to devote to that.

Or failing that, does anyone know of any reasonably realistic skydiving games?

Thanks,

Mike

[CanuckInUSA 0]

From an airplane point of view, simulators are great for Instrument Flight Rules training. But similators don't teach you how to land. So I can't see a skydiving simulator helping you towards learning how to fly a canopy.

But that's just my opinion. Maybe others feel different.

Now if you just want to have a little fun, doesn't the latest Microsoft Flight Simulator have some BASE jumper add-on?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[quade 4]

I think if you really wanted to write a sim, it would be far easier by using a flight sim program as the basis of it.

Try X-Plane if you really want to do it. X-Plane is used for real simulations as well as pilot training. It's designed to have new aircraft built for it.

I think you could create an aircraft (human body) that you could control with two joy-sticks and rudder pedals. The rudder pedals would be the legs and control a part of the heading control as well as fall rate and the joys would control the arms, also for heading and fall rate.

At some point you'd deploy a parachute and then the rudder pedals would become inop and the joys would control the left and right toggles. You could even write some different canopy types.

I'll beta test for ya!

I -was- thinking about doing it myself, but . . . I got distracted by a bee.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PhreeZone 20]

Why spend the time? http://www.systemstech.com/paramain.htm It works great. SSK sells the units and does training on them I think.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mjosparky 4]

FXC also makes a simulator.

FXC Simulator

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[quade 4]

Because I think those systems are going to cost me some coin and I wanted somebody to write it for me for free.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[LouDiamond 1]

As it's been mentioned, there are a few out there that started with the military in mind and then moved to the civilian market. IMO they all suck as they lack all the things one really needs to fly a canopy,depth perception being one of them. Besides being ridiculously expensive the technology is still lacking to make it realistic.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[AggieDave 6]

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Besides being ridiculously expensive the technology is still lacking to make it realistic.

They entertain the hell out of whuffos though. They had one at the Bush Library for a few months before and a while after 41's latest jumps. The experienced jumpers who go on it didn't fare so well, complaining of no depth perception and the inability to feel what was going on.

Whuffos did fairly well, though, since they just did what they thought as a video game instead of trying to "fly" a real canopy.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tombuch 0]

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From an airplane point of view, simulators are great for Instrument Flight Rules training. But similators don't teach you how to land. So I can't see a skydiving simulator helping you towards learning how to fly a canopy.

You are probably correct in that simulators don't do a great job of teaching the final flair, but their real strength is in navigational instruction, and emergency response training. Parachute simulators can be very effective in improving situational awareness.

When I have analyzed injury/accident statistics at my drop zone, I've found that most were in some way connected to poor planning. In some cases the spot was bad and the jumper failed to make appropriate decisions about selecting an alternate, or failed to safely reach the alternate. In many other cases the jumper landed on the DZ, but made a final turn too low, or slammed into a fixed object. Simulators can be very effective in reducing off field landings, and can improve decision making in all phases of canopy flight.

Simulators can also be effective in training for malfunction response. Visual depiction of specific malfunctions and context specific scenario development can significantly improve response performance.

Simulators are also very good at delivering consistent training, and documenting results. Sims can be used to train and test a student, then log the results as pass/fail or by numerical score, offering a drop zone demonstration of competency that is available as a legal defense following an accident.

The downside to simulator training is that it takes time, and requires an instructor. Likewise the cost can be significant. As I recall, a basic system for the civilian market will cost 20,000 - 25,000 dollars. That's a bunch of money for a small Cessna DZ, but a larger drop zone should be able to justify it as the cost of just two tandem rigs. Of course the potential for better trained students can help reduce injury and litigation.

For a bit more, check out the FXC page mentioned by MOJOSPARKY at: http://www.pia.com/fxc/vrweb1.htm. Skip the first part of the sales pitch and move about half way down the page to Simulator Training Features That Improve Performance

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[MWGemini 0]

My primary reason for asking/wanting this is that I have not had enough time in the air to instinctively know certain things yet. Like what to do when the winds are high and in directions that are not "normal" for my DZ, or what to do in really long spots, etc. I can pretty easily think it over and find the proper (or at least not the worst) solution, but it would be nice to practice all the off the wall things that should never happen so that when they DO, I react quickly and properly.

Quote

You are probably correct in that simulators don't do a great job of teaching the final flair, but their real strength is in navigational instruction, and emergency response training. Parachute simulators can be very effective in improving situational awareness.

Exactly!

No, it won't help with flare timing and learning how the canopy feels, but it can help in come things. The reason I had toyed with doing it with the Unreal engine is that I have some experience with that engine and its scripting language is very similar to C++/Java. I will check out x-plane tonight and see how that looks. I'm not interested in doing a freefall simulator. No "game" could come close with the current technology.

Thanks for the links to SSK and FXC, PhreeZone
and mjosparky. I believe the system I read the article on before is the SSK system, but I'll read both of those links tonight and try to learn more about them. That's certainly not something I can afford, however.

Thanks,

Mike

[Zoter 0]

Perhaps do some 'high' hop and pops and play around.......that will give you plenty o' time to mess around without having to worry about setting up your landing as soon as you open.....

[MWGemini 0]

I've already done one high opening (waved off at 12k) to learn my canopy, but thats not quite the same thing. I've e-mailed the creator of X-Plane inquiring about the feasibility of simulating a ram air parachute, but have not received a response yet.

Mike

[Evelyn 0]

Last year at the L.A. county fair they had a canopy control simulator at one of the exhibits. You actually got into a harness and then controlled your canopy while watching your flight on a computer screen. At the end of the flight they gave you a print out that showed your flight. I found it very confusing and did terrible.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller

[MWGemini 0]

Yeah, there are links to that system above. Seems like it runs on any regular PC, so I may just inquire as to the cost of the software istelf without the hanging harness and VR headset, things that I can fabricate locally if I really wanted or needed to. I think the owner of my DZ was considering getting one of them at one point if I recall correctly. I'll have to ask this weekend.

Mike

[tombuch 0]

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Last year at the L.A. county fair they had a canopy control simulator at one of the exhibits.

That's a different product.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy