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billvon 3,073
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>Although I don't swoop myself, I'd hate to see legitimate swooping cut
>off from those who want to do it, or even learn how.
That will be the effect of a sort of piecemeal, one-DZ-at-a-time approach to the issue. One DZ will ban 270's. Another will ban anything over a 90. Another DZ will ban all swooping except for its own locals. Another will ban any landing the DZO (who jumps a Raven II) thinks is "scary," which will include front riser approaches. Another will allow swooping in an alternate area.
This is one area that a new BSR will HELP swoopers, as we will have a standard that all DZ's can adhere to, and that all swoopers can understand. A BSR like the "separate area for swooping" would help keep skydivers alive _and_ give swoopers a better chance to continue doing their thing.
>off from those who want to do it, or even learn how.
That will be the effect of a sort of piecemeal, one-DZ-at-a-time approach to the issue. One DZ will ban 270's. Another will ban anything over a 90. Another DZ will ban all swooping except for its own locals. Another will ban any landing the DZO (who jumps a Raven II) thinks is "scary," which will include front riser approaches. Another will allow swooping in an alternate area.
This is one area that a new BSR will HELP swoopers, as we will have a standard that all DZ's can adhere to, and that all swoopers can understand. A BSR like the "separate area for swooping" would help keep skydivers alive _and_ give swoopers a better chance to continue doing their thing.
Once again, Skydive Arizona is leading the way. From leading the legal Fight against Skyride to now making a Clear and Concise rules for HP Landings.
Thank you to Larry Hill for all that he is doing.
Hopefully other DZ`s will soon follow suit. I Know Palatka and a few others have also already set forth rules.
Thank you to Larry Hill for all that he is doing.
Hopefully other DZ`s will soon follow suit. I Know Palatka and a few others have also already set forth rules.
superstu 0
Duplicate post removed; please see original in Canopy Control thread.
Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down
Kynan1 0
Effective immediately, turns over 180 degrees onto final will not be allowed in the North landing area. In the south landing area, patterns are now limited to turns of 90 degrees or less.
What a concept...ahaha Surprised it took so long for someone to step up to the plate. I actually want to go there now. Hopefully Perris and other big dropzones will do something on this.
If you think that will keep you safer then you are in for a very rude awakening dude. Good luck and don't look at any swoopers cross eyed or they will aim for you.
Betsy,
can you clarify how this new policy affects the pond area.
Thanx
can you clarify how this new policy affects the pond area.
Thanx
DSE 5
If it prevents one injury or death, it's at least a step in the right direction.
It might not be _the_ solution, and probably isn't.
At least it's action. The rest of it is just meaningless babble until someone takes some kind of action.
Action will allow a measure or gauge to be used to determine the quality (or lack thereof) of the changes. Perhaps it will lead to new statistics, perhaps nothing will change. Bottom line though, right or wrong, SDA is at least leading the effort in making *some* kind of change towards better safety practices.
I enjoy watching swoops, enjoy watching/filming HP pilots, BTW. The primary concern I see, is that competitors may find it more difficult to train, and as such, we may see a rise in the number of injuries to competitors due to lack of opportunity.
It might not be _the_ solution, and probably isn't.
At least it's action. The rest of it is just meaningless babble until someone takes some kind of action.
Action will allow a measure or gauge to be used to determine the quality (or lack thereof) of the changes. Perhaps it will lead to new statistics, perhaps nothing will change. Bottom line though, right or wrong, SDA is at least leading the effort in making *some* kind of change towards better safety practices.
I enjoy watching swoops, enjoy watching/filming HP pilots, BTW. The primary concern I see, is that competitors may find it more difficult to train, and as such, we may see a rise in the number of injuries to competitors due to lack of opportunity.
gemini 0
Last weekend at Eloy I saw the new policy in action twice. Both were local jumpers and both were grounded for the day (1 Saturday & 1 Sunday). Larry and his staff are serious about this.
Blue skies,
Jim
Blue skies,
Jim
Amazon 7
I can live with that!!
BillyVance 34
Last weekend at Eloy I saw the new policy in action twice. Both were local jumpers and both were grounded for the day (1 Saturday & 1 Sunday). Larry and his staff are serious about this.
Waaaay cool!!
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
Once again, Skydive Arizona is leading the way. From leading the legal Fight against Skyride to now making a Clear and Concise rules for HP Landings.
Thank you to Larry Hill for all that he is doing.
Hopefully other DZ`s will soon follow suit. I Know Palatka and a few others have also already set forth rules.
In fact they are not. Other DZ's have lead in this area far longer than SDAZ, and it's a shame since SDAZ has been pioneering in advancing the level of skydiving in the past 10 years.
Airspeed, SDU, AZTraining Center, SDSV, Flight Club.....the list goes on.
But other DZ's have seen the future of canopy piloting and planned for it. Elsinore did it long ago with seperate landing areas and a pond. Perris, Lake Wales, Skydive Oregon, Skydive Chicago, Colorado, have all found ways to incorporate this aspect of skydiving.
SDAZ is putting their foot down and that is their perogitive. The have through this action said they care little for the history of skydiving (style and accuracy) and the future (canopy piloting) and are in it for the money.
They have voted with their actions as to what they think skydiving should and will be.
And I will vote too. With my wallet and my feet.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
billvon 3,073
>And I will vote too. With my wallet and my feet.
I think we will see a lot of that. I think being the DZ willing to do something about making their landing areas safer will start getting more business from people who do not want to become the next Bob. The swoopers not willing to hold off doing 270's in the pattern will become upset and leave, and that's fine too. As Brian pointed out, it's not costing them any money to lose the swoopers, and avoiding a few coroner calls every year (with consequent shutdowns of a landing area) will likely make up for it.
I think we will see a lot of that. I think being the DZ willing to do something about making their landing areas safer will start getting more business from people who do not want to become the next Bob. The swoopers not willing to hold off doing 270's in the pattern will become upset and leave, and that's fine too. As Brian pointed out, it's not costing them any money to lose the swoopers, and avoiding a few coroner calls every year (with consequent shutdowns of a landing area) will likely make up for it.
My personal feeling is their policy will fail. There will always be one of the "chosen" that will get away with a swoop or two here and there before long the policy will crumble. It's happened before.
That's why the temporary rules didn't work. No one wants to enforce them. Think they'll be strong enough to boot a jumper over on a 2 week holiday from Europe for an infraction knowing when he/she leaves, they may take their 4 or 5 friends, plus spouses with them down the road to another DZ? We've all seen it before.
That's why the temporary rules didn't work. No one wants to enforce them. Think they'll be strong enough to boot a jumper over on a 2 week holiday from Europe for an infraction knowing when he/she leaves, they may take their 4 or 5 friends, plus spouses with them down the road to another DZ? We've all seen it before.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
Has there been any thought to the fact that the landing areas might just not be big enough to safely operate that many aircraft?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
How does this policy address the most recent canopy collision at SDAZ?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
billvon 3,073
>That's why the temporary rules didn't work. No one wants to enforce them.
I agree there - which is why we need a permanent US-wide rule (IMO.)
If every DZ had a different pull altitude minimum, we'd have endless problems with people not pulling at the right altitude. One reason it's not much of an issue is that minimum pull altitudes are common across the US. A specific rule on HP canopy flight/landing areas would accomplish the same thing, and help avoid more-stringent bans such as the one we've seen at SDAZ.
I agree there - which is why we need a permanent US-wide rule (IMO.)
If every DZ had a different pull altitude minimum, we'd have endless problems with people not pulling at the right altitude. One reason it's not much of an issue is that minimum pull altitudes are common across the US. A specific rule on HP canopy flight/landing areas would accomplish the same thing, and help avoid more-stringent bans such as the one we've seen at SDAZ.
chachi 0
i think they feel that their landing area is big enough for skydivers flying moderately loaded canopies; not to include highly loaded crossbraces doing 270 degree approaches. then they made a rule to accomodate that size only with no room for building bigger.
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