i WANT TO DOWNSIZE MY CANOPY ANY SUGGESTIONS?

[riddller21 0]

I am kinda a newbie been jumping for about 8 months know and done about 140 or so Jumps im 70kg when I bought my first canopy they suggested i buy a 170 square the rig on offer was a Talon with a PD 190 F1 11 material I am over it I have done almost everything with this canopy its way to big no responsive and feels like Im driving a bus!!!

I want to downsize but I have 2 delemas firstly what size do I downsize to and secondly do I buy a semi eliptical or a fully eliptical??

Ive jumped a 170 Square and it was alright but not a huge differance though.

Any suggestions???

[dragon2 2]

Coming from a F111 PD190 at .9 WL, you will probably like a 150 ZP semi-elliptical like a pilot/safire/sabre2. I wouldn't buy a fully eliptical canopy (like stiletto/crossfire) yet. Demo those 3 canopies and maybe a triathlon/spectre too, try to get a 170 size first if you can, but buying a suitable-model ZP 150 shouldn't be that big of a deal at 1.2 at 140 jumps.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Merkur 1]

70kg with or without equipment??

You might try a 150 - I personally wouldn't go smaller.
Stay with a square one. At size 150 this should be responsive enough and will give you lots of fun and enough challenges for a long time.

Don't go smaller as long as you can't land this new one in every direction (and yes, this means downwind probably even with some slight breeze from behind).

And before you buy anything - demo the equipment in different conditions. (I demoed mine for some 20 jumps).

blue ones,
M.

vSCR No.94
Don't dream your life - live your dream!

[rehmwa 2]

There's a list of manuvers that people are recommended to master before downsizing (landing straight in, half brake flat turns, etc etc) if you go to the canopy pilot forum, perhaps one of the experience pilots could provide that list and additional recommendations of what's a good size to step down once the list of skills of are mastered.

One thing to notice, the better the pro and more experienced, the more conservative are their recommendations... I wonder why that is?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kluGe 0]

I was faced same question year ago. After old design canopy you can notice big difference when change to moder design semi-elliptical but you WL is quite low so going one size smaller is not an issue.

IMHO 170 Safire2\Sabre2\Pilot\Magellan will suite for you best.

PS: Sorry, English not native.

[rhys 0]

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After old design canopy you can notice big difference when change to moder design semi-elliptical but you WL is quite low so going one size smaller is not an issue.

IMHO 170 Safire2\Sabre2\Pilot\Magellan will suite for you best.

I agree 100% I was flying a F111 7 cell 200 for 800 jumps.

when I had a couple of hundered jumps i tried a Sabre 170 and it felt really amazing, and I felt like I was finally flying a parachute not 'driving a bus' like you mentioned.

I would demo 170's and 150's and see what you like.

a safire2 is what I would recommend.

Be safe and have fun!

Rhys

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[174fps 1]

Quote

There's a list of manuvers that people are recommended to master before downsizing (landing straight in, half brake flat turns, etc etc) if you go to the canopy pilot forum, perhaps one of the experience pilots could provide that list and additional recommendations of what's a good size to step down once the list of skills of are mastered.

One thing to notice, the better the pro and more experienced, the more conservative are their recommendations... I wonder why that is?

Bill Von's downsizing checklist can be found here

[FallingDuck 0]

You should start w/ a 170 at less friction. And it sounds like the best thing for you would be to find a DZ that has a manufacturer demo going on try out as many in your range as you can. You are going to want to be in a 150 or higher till you get used to it. The safest thing is not to go too fast. You don't want to become a statistic.

[Fast 0]

Quote

Coming from a F111 PD190 at .9 WL, you will probably like a 150 ZP semi-elliptical like a pilot/safire/sabre2. I wouldn't buy a fully eliptical canopy (like stiletto/crossfire) yet. Demo those 3 canopies and maybe a triathlon/spectre too, try to get a 170 size first if you can, but buying a suitable-model ZP 150 shouldn't be that big of a deal at 1.2 at 140 jumps.

When he has been jumping a 190 F111, I don't see any good reason to skip buying a 170. It will be significantly faster and very different. We also don't know if he is calculating his wingloading correctly.


My advice is to demo the Pilot, Saber2 and Safire 2 in a 170 size and see if that makes you happy. There is a whole lot of learning that you can do on those canopies.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[dragon2 2]

Quote

Quote

Coming from a F111 PD190 at .9 WL, you will probably like a 150 ZP semi-elliptical like a pilot/safire/sabre2. I wouldn't buy a fully eliptical canopy (like stiletto/crossfire) yet. Demo those 3 canopies and maybe a triathlon/spectre too, try to get a 170 size first if you can, but buying a suitable-model ZP 150 shouldn't be that big of a deal at 1.2 at 140 jumps.

When he has been jumping a 190 F111, I don't see any good reason to skip buying a 170. It will be significantly faster and very different. We also don't know if he is calculating his wingloading correctly.


My advice is to demo the Pilot, Saber2 and Safire 2 in a 170 size and see if that makes you happy. There is a whole lot of learning that you can do on those canopies.

Well I did the calculating He said 70kg's I added the rig to that.

A ZP 170 will feel about the same as a F111 190 esp if it's older/has a lot of jumps. Of course no one is forcing him to buy a 150 but I suspect that's what he'll like better and a ~1.17 WL for 140 jumps on a 150 is fine.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Fast 0]

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Quote

Coming from a F111 PD190 at .9 WL, you will probably like a 150 ZP semi-elliptical like a pilot/safire/sabre2. I wouldn't buy a fully eliptical canopy (like stiletto/crossfire) yet. Demo those 3 canopies and maybe a triathlon/spectre too, try to get a 170 size first if you can, but buying a suitable-model ZP 150 shouldn't be that big of a deal at 1.2 at 140 jumps.

When he has been jumping a 190 F111, I don't see any good reason to skip buying a 170. It will be significantly faster and very different. We also don't know if he is calculating his wingloading correctly.


My advice is to demo the Pilot, Saber2 and Safire 2 in a 170 size and see if that makes you happy. There is a whole lot of learning that you can do on those canopies.

Well I did the calculating He said 70kg's I added the rig to that.

A ZP 170 will feel about the same as a F111 190 esp if it's older/has a lot of jumps. Of course no one is forcing him to buy a 150 but I suspect that's what he'll like better and a ~1.17 WL for 140 jumps on a 150 is fine.

Missed that he said weight in the first part. Also, kg's sheesh... talk about having to do math (LOL) Anyways, I only said what I said because downsizing 2 sizes and changing planform seems like a big step. If he was dead set on buying a 150 I would at least recomend that he makes a number of jumps on a 170 as an intermediary introduction to ZP canopies.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Pulse 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Coming from a F111 PD190 at .9 WL, you will probably like a 150 ZP semi-elliptical like a pilot/safire/sabre2. I wouldn't buy a fully eliptical canopy (like stiletto/crossfire) yet. Demo those 3 canopies and maybe a triathlon/spectre too, try to get a 170 size first if you can, but buying a suitable-model ZP 150 shouldn't be that big of a deal at 1.2 at 140 jumps.

When he has been jumping a 190 F111, I don't see any good reason to skip buying a 170. It will be significantly faster and very different. We also don't know if he is calculating his wingloading correctly.


My advice is to demo the Pilot, Saber2 and Safire 2 in a 170 size and see if that makes you happy. There is a whole lot of learning that you can do on those canopies.

Well I did the calculating He said 70kg's I added the rig to that.

A ZP 170 will feel about the same as a F111 190 esp if it's older/has a lot of jumps. Of course no one is forcing him to buy a 150 but I suspect that's what he'll like better and a ~1.17 WL for 140 jumps on a 150 is fine.

"...a 150 is fine" Based on what?

We only know what he told us. And though he says he's 'done everything', I've learned very few people have with that number of jumps. If you truly feel you've done everything and that your canopy is 'boring' go stall that bitch. Ride the 'horseshoe' for a thousand feet! Do some flat spins! It's interesting and educational!

by the way....if you're looking to downsize, I'd go with a 170-square.

"Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled."

[billvon 2,991]

>Ive jumped a 170 Square and it was alright but not a huge differance though.

I would then suggest a higher performance 170 sq ft canopy. The following canopies may suit you:

Silhouette
Pilot
Sabre 2
Safire 2
Spectre (7 cell)

All are somewhat elliptical, and all of them fly better than your average 9 cell square (like a Sabre 1.) They are a good balance at forgiveness and aggressiveness. You'll be able to learn about HP canopy flight with them, and if my estimates of your exit weight are correct, you will be loading them at about 1:1 which is just about right for your first ZP canopy.