BlindBrick 0 #1 September 24, 2004 I just got my new rig fitted out and would like a helmet but am just about tapped out financially. I was at my local Zumiez the other day and they have last season's Protec halfshells on sale for $20. I was considering buying one as a temporary thing until I can afford to get actual skydiving helmet. My question is how good are these for skydiving? -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydive2 1 #2 September 24, 2004 I know quite a few people that use them for skydiving. Not a stylish as a bonehead, but its a lot better than nothing! Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutz 0 #3 September 24, 2004 Actually, a pro tec is one of the better helmets out there - protection wise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #4 September 24, 2004 Nutz is right, a protec will protect your head a lot better than a full-face or fancy freefly helmet. I haven't seen a Freezr, but I have seen most other helmets, and coming from a mechanics background, I can tell you that none would take any reasonable amount of impact strike (obviously not a fall from altitude, but a canopy stall at 15' would surely make the helmet next to useless, while a protec would actually help). When it comes down to it, helmets are most useful against riser slap or a kick to the head in freefall (or other such contact). The only disadvantage of a half-shell is that that much less (yours ears in particular) is protected...so something to think about! I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #5 September 24, 2004 QuoteActually, a pro tec is one of the better helmets out there - protection wise. What he said. Protection wise, Protecs are better than 90% of "skydiving" helmets (including Boneheads). "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #6 September 24, 2004 I have a half shell & it has saved my head from being cracked open. Sounds like a good deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #7 September 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteActually, a pro tec is one of the better helmets out there - protection wise. What he said. Protection wise, Protecs are better than 90% of "skydiving" helmets (including Boneheads). What are some of the helmets designed for skydiving that you feel would fall in the 10% that are better protection then a ProTec? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #8 September 25, 2004 QuoteWhat are some of the helmets designed for skydiving that you feel would fall in the 10% that are better protection then a ProTec? None that I have heard of, but since I probably have not heard of ALL skydiving helmets manufactured, I was leaving myself a margin of error... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #9 September 25, 2004 QuoteActually, a pro tec is one of the better helmets out there - protection wise. ...are you sure? I have never taken a blow to the head in a skydiving helmet but I would say they are far more structurally sound than a pro-tec. I was and am an avid skateboarder/snowboarder for about 6 yrs and I've taken a couple blows to the head and seen MANY people take blows to the head wearing Pro-tecs. Although the majority of them have held up, I've seen quite a few crack from some...what I would call minor blows. I heard of a friend of a friend taking a mighty slam to the side of an incline under a velocity 120 and having his skydive helmet only crack a bit. oh, by the way, I say buy the pro-tec BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #10 September 25, 2004 Quote...are you sure? Quote Very sure. Almost all "skydiving helmets" are either a place to mount a camera and/or offer minimal protection. The lining is thin and of poor material to absorb energy. Do a search, there was a thread discussing helmets and on poster, who claimed to have worked for a major M/C helmet manufacture some of the material that is used in "good" helmets. He stated that of the ones he has seen, ProTec was by far the best at offering protection to the head.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #11 September 25, 2004 QuoteAlthough the majority of them have held up, I've seen quite a few crack from some...what I would call minor blows. That's really what they're supposed to do, they're supposed to take the impact, disperse the impact and keep your noggin intact. If it cracks after taking a hit, well, it did its job. I wear my "skydiving manufacture made" helmet to keep my pro-track, protect from the occasional riser slap, etc and the occasional bump on the head with the airplane situations. Beyond that I'm not expecting it to do a damned bit of good for me. If I was truely concerned I'd buy the lightest motorcycle helmet I could find. Back to the original question: I jumped with a half-shell skateboard helmet for about 100 jumps or so, it worked well, but it moves around on your head a bit, even when tightened all the way down...so it won't protect you quite as well as a full pro-tec would. The regular pro-tecs are only about $30 on the internet anyways, though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhighkiy 0 #12 September 25, 2004 Thank you for the info :) I guess one ofmy big questions about the pro-tec to the skydiving helmet is, do the materials they're made out of matter at all? or does the thickness and shape of the pro-tec more than make up for the use of normal plastics? as for me, I'm damn proud ofmy $150 peace of plastic with the word "hurricane" printed on it. How would a half-=shell pro-tec work for a small camera? move around a lot? BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #13 September 26, 2004 Buy the 1/2 shell Pro-Tec for 1/2 price and wear it in good health. 1/2 shells are popular with canopy formation and pond swooping competitors because they let you hear better. The disadvantage of 1/2 shells is little ear protection from risers slaps. I have worn a full-shell Protec for my last 1,000 tandems because riser slaps on tandems HURT! Protecs have far better foam padding/energy attenuation than most skydiving helmets. The very best energy attenuation comes with after-market foam liner kits made by Oregon Aerospace. The only are where the best skydiving helmets are better than Protecs is in puncture resistance. The best carbon-fiber skydiving helmets provide excellent puncture resistance. So the ultimate skydiving helmet includes a carbon-fiber shell with an Oregon Aerospace foam liner, at 5 times the cost of a Protec. Buy the cheap Protec dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Slurp56 0 #14 September 27, 2004 material does make a difference, riggerbob made some very good points about the foam protection. Coming from a motorcycle helmet background, it is standard practice to replace your helmet after impact. Whether it be from crashing or simply falling off of a table. Most serious guys replace it, however some dont. The hard outter shell serves only for puncture resistance. An impact could create a partial fracture that may be hidden by the covering gel-coat or stickets, that could potentially signifcantly weaken the exterior shell. The inside of a motorcycle helmet is comprise of an almost styrofoam type shell, then wrapped in the standard cloth liner. If you fall off the bike and your head hits the ground, you are essentially crushing the styrofoam, much like if you punched a piece of styrofoam insulation. It indents in the shap of the impact object (your head), looses its energy absorbing capability and becomes hard from compression. You wouldnt want to fall twice wearing the same helmet that could potentially have a weaker exterior shell, and no enegry absorbtion capability. I would imagine the same would apply to skydiving helmets to some degree. I know that the protection offered by my factory diver is minimal, but it will keep my head from being cut or punctured and it will also spread the impact to a larger portion of my head. The most common materials I've seen for the shell of helmets is plastic, fiberglass, and carbon fiber. Plastic is heavier, tears much easier from a shearing force, and typically wont crack, it will split. Fiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber, but is a little more forgiving than carbon fiber in the event of a failure. Fiberglass will flex more before it shatters, which can be a good thing in a lower impact. Typically it will be a tad thicker for more strength. Carbon fiber, while it is very light and very strong, is also very brittle if you were to try and bend it. Carbon fiber should take a greater force to fail, but if it does, it can snap and break apart. Fiberglass, if made strong enough to take the same impact, I would imagine would spider-web type fracture before ssnapping like carbon fiber. I am beginning to step a little outside of my solid knowledge of these materials, but someone else might have to critique my post. In any event, if you find yourself in a position to be unintentionally stress testing any of these materials, anything is better than nothing and they are all good choices. Has Carbon-Kevlar made an appearance in helmet applications yet? My understanding is that it is quite strong yet a little more flexible than carbon fiber.________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DShiznit 0 #15 September 27, 2004 I wear one for CRW jumps, but they SUCK in freefall. JMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhighkiy 0 #16 September 27, 2004 *is enlightened* BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlindBrick 0 #17 September 27, 2004 QuoteFiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber, Huh? When the Columbia disintegrated, they pulled fiberglass wings panels off the Enterprise to run impact tests on. The published reports indicated that the Enterprise panels suffered the same type of catastrophic failure despite the fact that they were fiberglass and were significantly stronger than the Columbia's carbon-fiber panels. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Slurp56 0 #18 September 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteFiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber, Huh? When the Columbia disintegrated, they pulled fiberglass wings panels off the Enterprise to run impact tests on. The published reports indicated that the Enterprise panels suffered the same type of catastrophic failure despite the fact that they were fiberglass and were significantly stronger than the Columbia's carbon-fiber panels. -Blind There are many different types of fiberglass's and its strength can be affected by many things such as the epoxy used, vacuum or heat treating, the fiber material used, honey comb, the weave, and the over all skill of the worker. pound for pound carbon fiber is a stronger material, but you can compensate fiberglass by laying more fiberglass layers down to increase its strength. In the response you wrote, you said that the fiberglass suffered the same catastrophic failure even though it was stronger. Basically it was laid thicker and failed just as the weaker carbon fiber did. If it was true that fiberglass was stronger, then they would certainly save themselves an enormous ammount of cash by doing so. carbon fiber costs nearly $20 more per yard than fiberglass. I think that the reason they used fiberglass on the wings in this application was probably due to the fact that wings will flex slightly durring flight, where carbon fiber doesnt like to flex nearly as much. But I think you did however catch me on the statement "Fiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber" which I believe should read "Fiberglass, which is heavier, is not as strong as carbon fiber." I went directy to bed of posting. ________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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AggieDave 6 #11 September 25, 2004 QuoteAlthough the majority of them have held up, I've seen quite a few crack from some...what I would call minor blows. That's really what they're supposed to do, they're supposed to take the impact, disperse the impact and keep your noggin intact. If it cracks after taking a hit, well, it did its job. I wear my "skydiving manufacture made" helmet to keep my pro-track, protect from the occasional riser slap, etc and the occasional bump on the head with the airplane situations. Beyond that I'm not expecting it to do a damned bit of good for me. If I was truely concerned I'd buy the lightest motorcycle helmet I could find. Back to the original question: I jumped with a half-shell skateboard helmet for about 100 jumps or so, it worked well, but it moves around on your head a bit, even when tightened all the way down...so it won't protect you quite as well as a full pro-tec would. The regular pro-tecs are only about $30 on the internet anyways, though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #12 September 25, 2004 Thank you for the info :) I guess one ofmy big questions about the pro-tec to the skydiving helmet is, do the materials they're made out of matter at all? or does the thickness and shape of the pro-tec more than make up for the use of normal plastics? as for me, I'm damn proud ofmy $150 peace of plastic with the word "hurricane" printed on it. How would a half-=shell pro-tec work for a small camera? move around a lot? BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 September 26, 2004 Buy the 1/2 shell Pro-Tec for 1/2 price and wear it in good health. 1/2 shells are popular with canopy formation and pond swooping competitors because they let you hear better. The disadvantage of 1/2 shells is little ear protection from risers slaps. I have worn a full-shell Protec for my last 1,000 tandems because riser slaps on tandems HURT! Protecs have far better foam padding/energy attenuation than most skydiving helmets. The very best energy attenuation comes with after-market foam liner kits made by Oregon Aerospace. The only are where the best skydiving helmets are better than Protecs is in puncture resistance. The best carbon-fiber skydiving helmets provide excellent puncture resistance. So the ultimate skydiving helmet includes a carbon-fiber shell with an Oregon Aerospace foam liner, at 5 times the cost of a Protec. Buy the cheap Protec dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slurp56 0 #14 September 27, 2004 material does make a difference, riggerbob made some very good points about the foam protection. Coming from a motorcycle helmet background, it is standard practice to replace your helmet after impact. Whether it be from crashing or simply falling off of a table. Most serious guys replace it, however some dont. The hard outter shell serves only for puncture resistance. An impact could create a partial fracture that may be hidden by the covering gel-coat or stickets, that could potentially signifcantly weaken the exterior shell. The inside of a motorcycle helmet is comprise of an almost styrofoam type shell, then wrapped in the standard cloth liner. If you fall off the bike and your head hits the ground, you are essentially crushing the styrofoam, much like if you punched a piece of styrofoam insulation. It indents in the shap of the impact object (your head), looses its energy absorbing capability and becomes hard from compression. You wouldnt want to fall twice wearing the same helmet that could potentially have a weaker exterior shell, and no enegry absorbtion capability. I would imagine the same would apply to skydiving helmets to some degree. I know that the protection offered by my factory diver is minimal, but it will keep my head from being cut or punctured and it will also spread the impact to a larger portion of my head. The most common materials I've seen for the shell of helmets is plastic, fiberglass, and carbon fiber. Plastic is heavier, tears much easier from a shearing force, and typically wont crack, it will split. Fiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber, but is a little more forgiving than carbon fiber in the event of a failure. Fiberglass will flex more before it shatters, which can be a good thing in a lower impact. Typically it will be a tad thicker for more strength. Carbon fiber, while it is very light and very strong, is also very brittle if you were to try and bend it. Carbon fiber should take a greater force to fail, but if it does, it can snap and break apart. Fiberglass, if made strong enough to take the same impact, I would imagine would spider-web type fracture before ssnapping like carbon fiber. I am beginning to step a little outside of my solid knowledge of these materials, but someone else might have to critique my post. In any event, if you find yourself in a position to be unintentionally stress testing any of these materials, anything is better than nothing and they are all good choices. Has Carbon-Kevlar made an appearance in helmet applications yet? My understanding is that it is quite strong yet a little more flexible than carbon fiber.________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DShiznit 0 #15 September 27, 2004 I wear one for CRW jumps, but they SUCK in freefall. JMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #16 September 27, 2004 *is enlightened* BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #17 September 27, 2004 QuoteFiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber, Huh? When the Columbia disintegrated, they pulled fiberglass wings panels off the Enterprise to run impact tests on. The published reports indicated that the Enterprise panels suffered the same type of catastrophic failure despite the fact that they were fiberglass and were significantly stronger than the Columbia's carbon-fiber panels. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slurp56 0 #18 September 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteFiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber, Huh? When the Columbia disintegrated, they pulled fiberglass wings panels off the Enterprise to run impact tests on. The published reports indicated that the Enterprise panels suffered the same type of catastrophic failure despite the fact that they were fiberglass and were significantly stronger than the Columbia's carbon-fiber panels. -Blind There are many different types of fiberglass's and its strength can be affected by many things such as the epoxy used, vacuum or heat treating, the fiber material used, honey comb, the weave, and the over all skill of the worker. pound for pound carbon fiber is a stronger material, but you can compensate fiberglass by laying more fiberglass layers down to increase its strength. In the response you wrote, you said that the fiberglass suffered the same catastrophic failure even though it was stronger. Basically it was laid thicker and failed just as the weaker carbon fiber did. If it was true that fiberglass was stronger, then they would certainly save themselves an enormous ammount of cash by doing so. carbon fiber costs nearly $20 more per yard than fiberglass. I think that the reason they used fiberglass on the wings in this application was probably due to the fact that wings will flex slightly durring flight, where carbon fiber doesnt like to flex nearly as much. But I think you did however catch me on the statement "Fiberglass, which is lighter, is not as strong as carbon fiber" which I believe should read "Fiberglass, which is heavier, is not as strong as carbon fiber." I went directy to bed of posting. ________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
