Your thoughts on stable reserve pull

[WooHoo 0]

I am sure various threads on the merits of RSL v no RSL, and the stability issue when pulling silver exist in the archives.

However I was talking to a cameraman who told me he had to cutaway and then as he had altitude on his side got stable by 2000 and pulled silver, he said nothing appeared to happen and he realised that the pilot chute had got in his burble, so dipped a shoulder and out she popped. I am sure this is a rare occurance, but it can and did happen.

Whilst at the boogie, I was reading a book about WWII pilots, and many of them recount pulling back the canopy and bailing out of their aircraft. What struck me is they were bailing out of unstable aircraft, with know knowledge of getting stable, only with the instruction of pulling the ripcord.

So my thought was does the risk of burning up valuable altitude to get stable create a greater risk of a low pull versus letting the spring loaded pilot chute work as designed and get the D-bag out pronto.

Just a thought and I would be interested in other peoples thoughts and experiences.

[peckerhead 0]

You can spend the rest of your life trying to get stable.

The most important thing is to pull.

[Zing 2]

In the words of skdiver Joe Park, circa 1972 ... "yer dead until you pull!"

Zing Lurks

[billvon 2,989]

>does the risk of burning up valuable altitude to get stable create a greater risk of a low pull . . .

Yes. Indeed, the Racer manual says you should NOT be stable belly-to-earth during a reserve pull; a head-high attitude (such as that which occurs right after cutaway) is preferable.

[IanHarrop 41]

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Yes. Indeed, the Racer manual says you should NOT be stable belly-to-earth during a reserve pull; a head-high attitude (such as that which occurs right after cutaway) is preferable.

This is good advice.

One of my reserve activation steps, the one right after I make the decision to use my reserve, is to put my feet on my ass. The goal is to make sure I'm in a head-high position when I pull my reserve. Lots of wind across my back to help ensure there will be no reserve pilot chute hesitation.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[fastphil 0]

I have plenty of jumps with spring loaded pilot chutes; it's amazing how they can sometimes just fall onto your back and lay there when you're flat and stable, and it's easy to run out of altitude and ideas at the same time...

[darkwing 5]

I think your chances of dying getting stable are far greater than your chances of dying because you didn't get stable.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mbondvegas 0]

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I think your chances of dying getting stable are far greater than your chances of dying because you didn't get stable.

Nice comment. It's all about risk management. I also think an RSL is the best idea for most situations. I recently cut-away without one and chose to get on my belly before pulling silver. At that moment, that seemed like the lowest risk move...clearly pulling is more important than stability...and we should all have a preset EP that say's "pillow, metal" versus Pillow....wait....Metal. I had this EP and varied from it based upon a very quick risk management decision (I'm not saying that was the wisest choice...but it worked and was what I felt was right at the time). I will use an RSL in the future (of course I will still pull metal).

- - -
I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[jsaxton 0]

same as your main
1) PULL
2) Pull ON TIME
3) pull STABLE

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I am not an experienced jumper.I started reading incident reports long before I made my first jump.I can recall many fatalities that were assumed to be a result of lost altitude awareness during attempts to get stable. And disorientating spinning malfunctions. And trouble finding silver after cutaway.I can only think of one I know of where a bridle entanglement on a tandem may have been a result of an RSL.The reading I have done made me choose an RSL.I think not having one has caused more deaths.I would read back issues of parachutist magazine, or go back in the incidents forum here and see what you think.I'm sure there are more places to find imformation.Then you can form an educated opinion, and decide what's best for you.This is just a beginners opinion.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[Martini 0]

I'd prefer reserve line twists over a reserve pc hesitation in general. Stable reserve deployments are overrated.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[tbrown 26]

Another reason to pull quickly over getting stable first is that a cutaway can defeat your AAD from saving you in time. For sure there are malfunctions that don't involve a cutaway, but most of the mals we're having nowadays do involve chopping a bad main. And a lot of those cutaways are from "spinners" and other uncontrollable, but open canopies. The result is that you're cutting away from a "low speed" malfunction and your AAD has gone back to sleep because you're not falling 79+ mph anymore. So while you're tumbling earthward trying to get stable, you have to re-accelerate before your AAD gets scared enough to fire. And all an AAD does is release your reserve pilot chute, if you're too low for the canopy to deploy, you're done.

This scenario is exactly what killed two or three people at the '03 and '05 WFFCs, they cut away low, tried to get stable and pulled too low. And their AADs fired - too low - because of the "low speed" of their cutaway. RSLs would most likely have saved them, getting stable didn't.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Inthebuff 0]

I usually go through my EP's on my first jump of the day.
My response is the same for all partial & total mals,look to Locate Red & Silver,pull Red, pull Silver.
The thing is,this means that if I have a pilot chute in tow ( total mal ) I will cut it away.
If I look for my handles when I'm belly to earth and reach for them to locate before chopping red & pulling silver I go head down which just feels wrong & it's the fact that I'm dropping my head to look that makes me go head down.
On AFF on cutaway drills the ficticious mal was always above my head,streamer,line over etc, but never a pilot chute in tow.
I know the answer is to be able to locate my handles on my belly without looking at them.
I just wondered if anyone else had encountered this problem.

***********************************
Fly Like Zie Eagle, Not Like Zie Chicken !
Good advice from an instructor I know.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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One of my reserve activation steps, the one right after I make the decision to use my reserve, is to put my feet on my ass. The goal is to make sure I'm in a head-high position when I pull my reserve.

Yes! I've been saying that for years. It also forces you into a good arch, insuring stability even more. I've got almost a dozen cutaways, all stable, all with immediate reserve pull. It ain't rocket science, people. Put your feet on your butt and arch.

[Martini 0]

One more item: Getting stable after cutting away a spinner while wearing a wingsuit is gonna be tough. Personally I don't even try.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[phoenixlpr 0]

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One more item: Getting stable after cutting away a spinner while wearing a wingsuit is gonna be tough. Personally I don't even try.

You could be stable head high with open arm and closed leg wings.

[recovercrachead 0]

If you know were your are, thats find. There is no reason that you can't turn to your belly and start to find your handle at the same time. Thats complete bullshit about pulling first PULL before getting stable unless your under 700 feet. Thats from my experience.
1. LOOK, REACH, PULL
2. ARCH, ARCH ARCH
3. LOOK, REACH, PULL

p.s. I only try to gift rap presents not me.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[phoenixlpr 0]

I had no trouble with headhigh pulls so far.

I got only line twist on reserve at least once.

[jimmytavino 16]

depending on ones "frequency of cutaways" a jumper can be caught by surprise as the 3 rings release......( one of the few times in this sport, that I have really felt that 'pit of your stomach' sense
that, "HEY...I'm falling "!!!)

From anything other than a high speed malfunction, the Initial drop back into freefall does Have a trap door effect... and the Uh Uh UH momentary reaction to that,,,
CAN break a jumpers' concentration... Coupled with a roll in the wrong direction, or coupled with any amount of centrifical "throw'.... and our emergency proceedures can become interupted to the point of wasting altitude....
Pull the release pillow.... PULL that reserve handle.... without delay...
As mentioned, part of the 3 ring move, should include prepping our bodies for proper presentation to the relative wind, and then launching that Res. Pilot chute... UP.....by proper activation of the ripcord handle...We should expect that we can move our bodies
into a belly to earth position, simultaneously........
If in a Higher speed situation where the AAD has not "gone to sleep"... a prime incentive for a "Now" .. pull, would be preventing the cutter from firing at ALL..... " beating the AAD to the punch " so to speak...We can pull a reserve handle ourselves , yet still have the AAD fire, and cut the closing loop...right.??....I never argue with having to have my reserve repacked ( it sure beats the alternative), but it's best not to have to buy a new cutter.
pack diligently, deploy consistantly, stay aware, in the event of a mal....respond with confidence.......

jmy
a3914 ...d12122

[Martini 0]

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You could be stable head high with open arm and closed leg wings



Yep you could. But getting stable on a wingsuit after being shot out feet first on your back from a spinning mal takes time and altitude (that's after you figure out which way is up). If you chopped nice and high then go for it. Getting a reserve out fast is my priority and has worked fine for me so far wingsuit or not. You're welcome to your method, I'm sticking with mine. And when asked I'll always recommend altitude over stability on a reserve deployment.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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[riggerrob 643]

If I look for my handles when I'm belly to earth and reach for them to locate before chopping red & pulling silver I go head down which just feels wrong & it's the fact that I'm dropping my head to look that makes me go head down.

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Not as bad as you fear.
Being slightly head-low, is the second best position for launching a reserve pilot chute.
Being perfectly stable on your belly is the worst position for launching a reserve pilot chute,

During the 1993 PIA Symposium, Troy Loney (r.i.p.) showed us extensive footage of EOS test-jumps that proved conclusively that the best time to launch a reserve pilot chute is one second after cutting away, while you are still head-high, with wind blowing UP your back.
Funny! That is exactly when an RSL will pull your reserve ripcord.

Also - if you follow Ian's advice about remembering to tuck your legs behind you as you reach for handles - it will counteract most of the head-down pitching.

[icevideot 0]

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And when asked I'll always recommend altitude over stability on a reserve deployment.

Well said and this also gives you more options for your landing area. It would suck to take that moment getting a stable pull only to realize you are either landing next to a busy street or in power lines.

I'll have some of that altitude.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[Ms.sofaking 0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Being slightly head-low, is the second best position for launching a reserve pilot chute.
Being perfectly stable on your belly is the worst position for launching a reserve pilot chute,

Can you explain this.Why would slightly head-low be better than belly to earth?Doesn't head-low increase the chance of bridle entanglement?Especially if your putting your feet on your ass.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[riggerrob 643]

The key word here is "...SLIGHTLY head low ..." improves air flow across your back, improving pilot chute launch.

You are correct that a full-blown, head-down position increases the chances of bridle entanglement.

[billvon 2,989]

>Why would slightly head-low be better than belly to earth?

Less burble; better chance of a good PC launch.