EMERGENCY EXITS DURING CLIMBOUT

[dnewcomer 0]

I would like to hear some experienced jumpers' opinions regarding the following issue:

We all keep our seat belts fastened up to 1,000' AGL during A/C climbout. If an emergency arises up to 1,000', we would ride the plane down. If an emergency arose after that time, and the pilot told everyone to exit between 1,000' and 1,500' AGL, what would you do? Would you go for reserve or main?

If you'd pull reserve up to 1,500', what altitude would you pull main? (Presumably your designated hard ceiling.)

I have never been at a DZ where this situation arose.

Just curious about opinions on this. It seems to rarely come up for discussion.

D--
WEB SITE: www.newconthenet.com

[mattjw916 2]

Well, if you have a Cypres or equivalent it would be pretty logical to bailout and go straight to silver up to about up to probably 1500-2000 feet since it will be a sub-terminal deployment and with some mains taking over 700ft to deploy at terminal the chances for a 2-out would be pretty high if your main sniveled down to Cypres territory.

Anything over ~2000 and I would go to my main since I would never really relish going to my "last chance" first, unless I really had a reason to.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[PhreeZone 20]

Unless you get to 1500 the cypres will not go into "armed" mode. The difference between a terminal 700 foot opening and a subterminal exit is huge. Most snivleing canopies only take 150-200 feet subterminal to open.

Sub-1200 I'd go reserve. 1200-1500 Its would be a toss up. 1500+ I'd go on main. I've got out at 1750 before on my main with the Cypres on.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Kris 0]

For my personal comfort level, I'll go for my main (Stiletto 190) at/above 1500', and my reserve below that. I've got over 300 jumps on my Stiletto and I know its opening characteristics enough.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[mattjw916 2]

I forgot about the Cypres "arming" altitude... but I thought it was lower than 1500ft... I guess I need to go reread the manual again.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[YahooLV 0]

CHROME!

http://www.curtisglennphotography.com

[GravityGirl 0]

I keep it consistant with my "Hard Deck" in freefall.

Bail out under 1500 ft = Reserve.
Bail out over 1500 ft = Main.

This is JUST MY PERSONAL comfort zone.

Every jumper should know their comfort level and make a plan. If you have a plan now, you won't have to ponder in a high stress situation. And drill it on take off. Lookat your altimeter and think, "If I left at this altitude, I would...." And visualize a nice clean exit and deployment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[diablopilot 2]

I've got MY persoal plan on MY gear. You should come up with your own, based on your gear, and your comfort level.

Oh and don't forget, not all A/C emergencies are the same. One engine on the Otter give out at 1500 agl? I'll sit tight ans see what the pilot wants us to do. Wing comes off at 2 grand, well just don't get in my way if you don't want footprints on your helmet.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BartsDaddy 7]

Well here in perris or elsinore 2500 or below I am going out on the reserve. We have a lot of low mountains or high hills of dirt how ever you want to look at them, So 2500 on your altimeter might be 1000 to 1500 agl depending where the plane is.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[skydiverton 0]

Whatever canopy you take. It will open fast.
An airplane in trouble is likely to keep as much speed as possible (speed is lift) to stay flying.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[billvon 3,009]

>Would you go for reserve or main?

Depends on which rig I'm jumping and what I'm over. I'll generally go for the main as low as 1000 feet; I've deployed via BOC for 4000 some odd jumps (and have perhaps 300 hop and pops) so I know I can do that quickly, and I know how quickly they will open. Also, the mains I usually jump are not snivelly, so I know they will open fairly quickly - and I've landed them hundreds of times before.

If I had a demo rig, or I was over an area I knew was going to be tough to land in, or I wasn't really sure, I'd use my reserve.

[Flamediver84 0]

Above 1,500 I would dare to go for my main I once popped it at 1,800 and could almost smell the tarmac when it opend So if its realy nasty and we have to go out I think it's clever to go for that shiny silver buckle
Greetz

The ability to fool gravity is a talent that shouldn't be wasted - kerosine=fuel for skydive planes, adrenaline= fuel for it's passengers

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

Whatever canopy you take. It will open fast.
An airplane in trouble is likely to keep as much speed as possible (speed is lift) to stay flying.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I disagree.

A good pilot will promptly trim the airplane for best glide speed, which is similar to best rate of climb speed and similar to approach speed, usually 1.3 times the stall speed.

[skydiverton 0]

Quote

Quote

Whatever canopy you take. It will open fast.
An airplane in trouble is likely to keep as much speed as possible (speed is lift) to stay flying.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I disagree.

A good pilot will promptly trim the airplane for best glide speed, which is similar to best rate of climb speed and similar to approach speed, usually 1.3 times the stall speed.

That is ussually more than a normal jumprun

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[bch7773 0]

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Well here in perris or elsinore 2500 or below I am going out on the reserve. We have a lot of low mountains or high hills of dirt how ever you want to look at them, So 2500 on your altimeter might be 1000 to 1500 agl depending where the plane is.

ahhhh i don't believe that. I'm pretty sure the highest hill in florida is under 500 feet.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[PhreeZone 20]

Highest point in Florida = Lakewood (Britton Hill) 345 feet. Too bad Cali is on the other coast.

That is a good point about knowing your local terrain to see if you need to adjust your decisions.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Ron 10]

Wanna make it simple?

Go to your reserve in any Emergency exit that is lower than you would do a hop n pop from.

However I have a buddy that is dead due to this.

Lets pop into the patented "wayback machine"

Cessna 182's engine dies at around 1200 feet. The pilot tells everyone to get out except the observer sitting in the student seat.

The first guy out pulls his main...It opens LOW. The pilot a triple threat (Pilot, skydiver, rigger) tells my buddy to pull his reserve.

He climbs out and goes. He pulls his *cutaway* handle. He realizes his mistake and pulls his MAIN...Well his RSL starts to open the reserve and he hits the ground.

The third person pulls the silver and is fine.

The pilot is doing his E-checklist and sees that the observer turned the fuel valve off.

It was this lesson that I learned that a CYPRES does not arm till 1500 feet.

So, if you are in a plane lower than you would do a hop n pop from....Go out on silver.

That means hand on the handle and jump out the door.

When clear pull it.

It is an emergency situation...It is better to get a repack than get killed.

Also...Do low hop n pops. Do exits from 2500 feet. you never know what you will do when the time comes...And if you are an otter baby, you will most likley never have left a plane that low.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tonyhays 86]

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Oh and don't forget, not all A/C emergencies are the same

Truer words have never been spoken. It's easy to say you'll do something in a given situation (i.e. going for silver). But when the shit his the fan, don't be surprised when you look up and see your main over your head.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[chuckbrown 0]

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Also...Do low hop n pops. Do exits from 2500 feet. you never know what you will do when the time comes...And if you are an otter baby, you will most likley never have left a plane that low.

Excellent advice. If 2,500 looks too low, don't look down. It's much easier that way.

[FrogNog 1]

Quote

Quote

Whatever canopy you take. It will open fast.
An airplane in trouble is likely to keep as much speed as possible (speed is lift) to stay flying.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I disagree.

A good pilot will promptly trim the airplane for best glide speed, which is similar to best rate of climb speed and similar to approach speed, usually 1.3 times the stall speed.

I've listened to some of our more experienced pilots mentoring the new pilots, and from what they're saying, it sounds like our 182s only have two speeds:
1. "jump run"
2. "a bit faster than jump run" (climb speed, and I think same as "coast back to airport with dead engine" speed)
3. "descending"

There may be a fourth speed if the wings rip off, but I try not to worry about that.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[dnewcomer 0]

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It will open fast. An airplane in trouble is likely to keep as much speed as possible (speed is lift) to stay flying.

I think this is a good point. Assuming the plane encounters trouble at 1,000' or higher and is able to continue flying horizontally for the time it takes all skydivers to exit, whatever the speed of the plane you will essentially be moving horizontally across the ground at 1,000' altitude for at least a couple of seconds after you exit. (O.K.......you will go down about 32' in two seconds.) The vertical vector of your motion through the air will be minimal during this time......more than enough time to pull main hackey and have the horizontal movement through air activate deployment.

You can prove this to yourself by doing "experimental" hop n' pops at safer altitude (eg. 2,500'). If you exit at 2,500', pull main hackey as soon as you're clear of plane (one or two seconds), you should be under canopy by 2,300', possibly higher.

If you think you would be tumbling head-over-heels or otherwise be unstable after an emergency exit, you'd probably be better off going for silver so your pilot chute clears well and doesn't wrap around your legs.

On the other hand, if you're doing a balloon jump (floating on the relative wind) and a plane accidentally crashes into ballon envelop when you're at ~1,200' altitude, you'd better go for silver right away -- there wouldn't be enough air for the pilot chute to pull the closing pin until your fall rate picks up. How low would that be? I don't know.......maybe 300' - 500'. Probably too low, I think.

I really enjoyed reading everyone's opinion on this subject.

D--
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