Cutaway Question....

[markovwgti 0]

After watching many videos of malfunctions and talking to my AFP Instructor....i never really got a definete answer on how long to wait to pull the reserve cord after you cut the main away...ive seen videos where they wait a few seconds and ive seen videos where they literally pull both at the same time.....which is correct??

[MagicGuy 0]

Well, when I was taught my EPs, once that cutaway handle was pulled and released it was immediately over to the reserve handle.

I've also heard both sides of the spectrum. You want to pull the reserve immediately after cutting away, but of course you want to be stable when you pull it.

Good question, I'm interested in the replies.

[ChrisL 2]

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You want to pull the reserve immediately after cutting away, but of course you want to be stable when you pull it.

Pulling the handle is WAY more important than being stable.

If you cant get stable right away, then pull the handle anyway.
Dont spend the rest of your life getting stable...

__

My mighty steed

[BETO74 0]

Uh........ depends check with your instructor. My first cutaway was spinning mal very fast on my back I had altitude I got stable face down first before I pulled. My second was a tension knot cut away and deploy I was already stable. Both cut away without RSL

Now I have the skyhook I really don't think about any of those two scenarios anymore. Unless I'm doing HP CREW

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[mhcook 0]

Being a student, like myself, your rig should have an RSL which by the time you pull the handle via your training, your reserve is probably already out.
our emergency training says pull the handle anyway
RSL or no. Just remember and practice the way you were trained. I was trained to cut away and pull with no delay.

[Yossarian 0]

if you've got an rsl then thats going to 'pull' it far quicker than you ever could anyway, the way i think of it it needs to be quick (for obvious reasons) but slow enough you dont cause an entanglement. is it strange i cant wait for my first cutaway?

[BIGUN 1,307]

How scared are you?

There's several schools of thought and variables to consider.

One school of thought are those who jump highly ellipticals (and who usually don't wear an RSL) and find themselves under a drastically spinning malfunction have concerns about chopping and continue spinning into the reserve deployment - will chop, get stable and then pull the reserve. There's a continuing debate as to if it's better to chop and pull right away (while still having some spin inertia) with a highly elliptical canopy or not.

The second school of thought is those who don't jump highly elliptical canopies (who usually wear an RSL) will chop and go straight to the reserve handle since the RSL is going to "probably" [just a backup] pull the reserve cable anyway.

The variables to consider are; 1) am I jumping a highly loaded elliptical, 2) am I wearing an RSL, 3) do I have enough time to chop, get stable and then pull (serious need for altitude awareness and some have decided poorly with this option), 4) am I CReW dog (whole 'nther discussion).
At this point in your skydiving, it's best to discuss this with your Instructors. For awhile, you're probably going to be jumping either a student rig with an RSL or purchase a semi-elliptical without much weight-loading and it'll probably come with an RSL. One suggestion would be that until you get several hundred jumps - to do your emergency procedures as your Instructors taught you; more so than what you see on videos.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

I think this all relies around the stability question. If you have time, sure try to get stable if you're comfortable doing that, if not, dump right away.

I personally think it's pretty unlikely that once those 3 rings release, that there would be any chance of your reserve catching the main. I mean, in a split second you're probably already 20 feet from the main. I guess it's possible, but still pretty unlikely.

My handles sounded like this when I had a mal:

CHING CHING!

No delay at all, and I'm glad I did everything right. It was jump 33, wasn't a violent mal but I couldn't land it, and there was "NO" delay whatsoever. No RSL on the rig either.

Just another point of view, one of my instructors was doing an intentional for his tandem rating and had a video guy follow him for fun. The plan was to chop, delay 5 seconds then dump the reserve. It didn't go exactly as planned. The video showed that he delayed about half a second, even though the guy cutting away thought it was a good 5-6 seconds. It's pretty amazing what stress/adrenaline will do to the mind.

My plan, if I have altitude to spare, I'll attempt stability, but for now, my RSL stays connected. I haven't decided that it would be safer for me to remove. It's a tough call, but I think once I have about 150-200 jumps, I'll likely jump without it. There's alot of pro's and cons, it's just a personal decision as to which one weighs more.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[labrys 0]

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but I think once I have about 150-200 jumps, I'll likely jump without it.

What do jump numbers have to do with that choice more than equipment considerations?

What I mean is... "When I start jumping a camera" I might give up the RSL.....

But WTH do basic jump numbers have to do with it?

Owned by Remi #?

[fastphil 0]

Never will you know if you have enough time until it's over; I think when it's time to use a reserve it's time to do it immediately...

[Liemberg 0]

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ive seen videos where they wait a few seconds and ive seen videos where they literally pull both at the same time.....which is correct??

From personal experience I tend to say you feel a sense of pressing urgence - it is after all a big planet "comming up" and its aimed right at you

To rephrase it: Hitting the ground in a stable body position should produce a symmetrical crater...

In the past there has been a lot of debate about "inertia" and "spinning". At the risk of professor John Kallend comming after me with a bat for "unauthorised teaching of physics"
YMMV

...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[mark 107]

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[ A] ball that comes rolling down a spiraling path in (f.i.) a tube tends not to continue its spiraling movement but tends to travel straight once it is out of that tube.

Yes, but that's not the whole story.

The center of mass of the released object (the ball in your example) will go in a straight line. The object itself may continue rotating around its own center of mass. A skydiver may be barrel-rolling at the time of release; the barrel roll will continue unless it is countered.

Additionally, the release will generally result in a feet-to-relative-wind position which is not stable for most skydivers except to the extent that a deploying reserve makes it so.

I am not suggesting anyone should wait to get stable after cutting away.

Mark

[sundevil777 102]

You have to be one seriously cool cucumber to be able to take a significant delay. No matter what you think right now, it is very likely that you won't wait at all.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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You have to be one seriously cool cucumber to be able to take a significant delay. No matter what you think right now, it is very likely that you won't wait at all.

I've done half a barrel roll, stopped spinning, and then deployed. A couple measured seconds on video; no reason to wait longer.

I've also just pulled both in sequence when I didn't know my altitude with certainty; waiting longer would not have been prudent.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey Labrys,

It's not necessarily jump numbers that will weigh my decision to stop using an RSL. It's more a comfort factor. Right now, with 55 jumps, I would feel comfortable jumping without one, but if I was in a situation where I needed it (IE Low pull with a mal or something), right now, I'd be glad it was there.

My magical number of 150-200 jumps is my rough estimate when I'll feel comfortable that I can get myself stable quickly with any gear in any situation. If I don't feel comfortable at 200 jumps, then the RSL stays on. It's just my outlook at this time, and it will likely change.

I do agree that jump type will affect whether it's on or not as well, I was simply giving my opinion and this is how I feel at this point.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[mark 107]

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My magical number of 150-200 jumps is my rough estimate when I'll feel comfortable that I can get myself stable quickly with any gear in any situation.

Most cutaway airspeeds are around 30-40 mph, according to Mr. Booth. That includes the fast spinners. Will you be comfortable getting stable at BASE-jump speeds? How will you know?

Mark

[NelKel 0]

you should pull your reserve handle as soon as you are sure you have seperated from your malfunctioned main. period, or 1000 ft AGL which ever is first.

It seems to me alot of these questions could be answered by READING THE SIMS.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[two40 0]

with students, as the OP is, you need not worry about this as you would be using an RSL. i was wondering, is it mandatory for students to fly an RSL or is that just something most DZ's do for added safety.

i've heard of students cutting away and then not pulling the reserve expecting it to deploy and going in so RSL's seem like a damned good idea while you're learning.

[NelKel 0]

You should pull your reserve handle as soon as you have seperated from your main, or 1000 ft agl
I am surprised by the number of students who do not know what a sims is.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[markovwgti 0]

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You should pull your reserve handle as soon as you have seperated from your main, or 1000 ft agl
I am surprised by the number of students who do not know what a sims is.

i know what a sim is

[Hayfield 0]

Student mandatory equipment includes an RSL unless you're signed off by an instructor to jump without one. SIM Section 2-1

"Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!"
-Crusty Old Pete

[labrys 0]

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It's not necessarily jump numbers that will weigh my decision to stop using an RSL. It's more a comfort factor. Right now, with 55 jumps, I would feel comfortable jumping without one, but if I was in a situation where I needed it (IE Low pull with a mal or something), right now, I'd be glad it was there.

My magical number of 150-200 jumps is my rough estimate when I'll feel comfortable that I can get myself stable quickly with any gear in any situation. If I don't feel comfortable at 200 jumps, then the RSL stays on. It's just my outlook at this time, and it will likely change.

I do agree that jump type will affect whether it's on or not as well, I was simply giving my opinion and this is how I feel at this point.

Well, that's a very thoughtful answer. What I was trying to get at is that no matter how comfortable you are with your ability to get stable and pull under any circumstances, why not have an RSL unless you're either doing jumps or using gear that make an RSL an increased risk?

Owned by Remi #?

[riggerrob 643]

Also remember that your currently and "comfort level" will deteriorate over the winter.
So - come spring time - you will feel more like a twenty-jump-wonder.
Ergo, you are better off leaving your RSL attached until mid-summer.

[riggerrob 643]

Half the time - the popular press reports - "reserve parachute failed to open" the real explanation is that the jumper pulled his reserve ripcord too low.
No sympathy!
There are good reason why USPA, CSPA, etc. made RSLs mandatory for students, a long time ago.

[riggerrob 643]

As for cutting away from a rapidly-spinning, highly elliptical main, I think it is a fool's errand to wait until you are stable.

First of all, your inner ears may be so badly spun up that they will take 30 seconds to slow down.

Secondly, spinning ellipticals lose altitude far faster than most human brains can comprehend.

Thirdly, Bill Booth's drop tests proved that Skyhook-deployed reserves rarely open with line twists, no matter how badly you were spinning.