aircraft emergencies...

[stratostar 5]

I am well aware of your adventures. And your posts (and hers) above is why I said "she" needed to search for the Celina Ohio crash and read the reports and take a good hard look at the photos of the dead jumpers and where they landed and where the airplane is.

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Had anyone on that load in that 182 paniced and tried to move around or exit the plane, we would have all died. We needed all the airspeed we had to make then turn to a safe field and we needed the trim we had to keep from stalling out at a very unrecoverable altitude.

And that is why I would (if we made it) be looking to kick the shit out of anyone who would endanger the rest of the load by acting like a fool.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Ms.sofaking 0]

Again
Post#19
Post#38
You seem to think if there's an emergency I'm getting out. fuck everyone else.I gave an example of a time when I will use my best judgement.I said I wouldn't do this with an engine out and a pilot saying stay.I keep hearing how in the case of an engine out I could kill everyone.When I never said I'd get out in that scenario.
I'm curious how many of you are going to buckle up and ride a burning inferno to the ground.I'm no expert, what happens should all the fuel ignite.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[stratostar 5]

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The point has gotten lost through misunderstanding and anger.And pulling sentences out of posts that were not really the point to begin with.

I didn't misunderstand jackshit ! You said the following....

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Personally, if the plane burst into flames at 500 ft I'm out the door and going straight to reserve.I won't be considering whether or not we are supposed to get out at this altitude.When it comes serious emergencies you make a split second decision, and it's either right or wrong I don't think any rules apply.

There is no misunderstanding here at all, your statement is one of a foolish person who will get a whole load killed period! There is no debate as to what you stated, maybe you need to rethink things, sorry but you stuck your foot in your mouth and now your talking out your ass. Goodnite, I be back in the morning.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[labrys 0]

And what I"m saying is that I think you're wasting huge amounts of energy thinking and talking about what you would do in a really bizarre situation and making it clear that when you don't have any other plan, you seem to be of a mind to screw the rest of the load if you deem it necessary because you know better than anyone else.

Owned by Remi #?

[Ms.sofaking 0]

That was in reference to the post about how at someones DZ they do not get out under 1000. I posted a scenerio where I would. And that's where this all got started.Good night

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[AFFI 0]

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I guess that low becomes another "decide for yourself it's your life" situations.We could probably come up with thousands of "what if's?"
Personally, if the plane burst into flames at 500 ft I'm out the door and going straight to reserve.I won't be considering whether or not we are supposed to get out at this altitude.When it comes serious emergencies you make a split second decision, and it's either right or wrong I don't think any rules apply.

If an airplane bursts into flames at 500(+) feet no one will be able to get out, hell, you probably wouldn’t even have time to get your seatbelt off and even if you were sitting right by an open door (which should be closed for takeoff) by the time you are able to get the belt off and roll out of the door the plane will be so low to the ground by then you wouldn’t even get line stretch before impact. It will be all over quickly and the pilot could be the only saving grace so the occupants need to give the pilot what is needed to be able to best do their job.

The best plan for dealing with airplane emergencies is to remain calm and simply take commands from the pilot. He/She will know better than anyone aboard what needs to be done.
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[billvon 2,991]

Please refrain from personal attacks, people. One post of your opinions is sufficient. Repeated high-drama threats and expositions add nothing to the discussion.

[Orange1 0]

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Plane on fire was merely an example of a situation where I don't feel "proper procedure" over rules making decisions for yourself about your life.But my point just gets picked apart into, me being an arrogant ass who knows better than procedure, or oh my god what if a plane's on fire.Neither of which was the point.

With respect, you were the one who kept on going back to the fire scenario. My original concern was twofold: first that you say there are a million "what if" scenarios but don't seem prepared to think about the "what if you endanger other people by doing what you think is best for yourself" one; and possibly more importantly is that your earlier post implied you don't actually know what aircraft emergency procedures at your DZ are. I really suggest you talk to your instructors about these, and by all means bring up the plane on fire at 500' example and ask them about it.

I haven't been around the sport very long and i have very low jump numbers. But i've been around long enough to know that when a lot of people with 1000s of jumps and many years in the sport all tend to say the same thing, that thing is usually right. And to know that sometimes what you think is the right thing isn't, and it's no shame to say "ok, I didn't think about that" and maybe change your thinking to something safer.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

You are correct, This all started with my reply to you in regard to not getting out under 1000 feet.I threw that out as an example of when I would get out under 1000.Regardless of rules. People seemed to imply I could kill people if I did that in an engine out situation.So I kept saying that wasn't what I was saying going back to the fire.I originally was questioning how many people should exit at once in a very low emergency.Because I know not to shift weight around when the plane is having problems.I absolutely would listen to the more experienced people.My point was really about in a crisis there may come a time when you are in a situation where you need to decide for yourself what to do.That doesn't mean in every situation I would tell the voices of experience "i know better" because I don't.And I have spoken with very experienced people about this whole thread and they understood my point, having to make your own decision about your life.And how your life is more important than a rule at a DZ.Not your life is more important than the people with you.I think that was lost in this thread.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[stratostar 5]

Ms. Sofaking,

One of the problems with posting is you can't read peoples body language or facial expressions during a good debate, believe it or not, if we were having the same pissing contest over a beer at the dz bar, I would have been laughing and shaking my head at your comments, and yes I would have said the same as I posted to your face, but you would be able to read my body language & facial expressions, at no point would beer bottle's or fist been flying your way, or even get mad at you or stating your points of view.

But if you had ever been in any wild rides you would understand better the points myself and other posters were making, I'm sure you felt we were ganging up on you and taking your post out of context, but that one comment did tell many of us you had or have the mindset that the rules don't apply at some point when the shit hits the fan. That scares the shit of many of us who have had some very interesting airplane rides over the years. You and many of the jumpers who have started in the last 10 to15 years are "turbine babies" how lucky you are to be one, for the most part the days of DC-3's and beach 18's are gone, it was not uncommon to blow jugs and other engine issues, and they got your attention right quick.

The Cessna is still the backbone of the industry and should you ever have the joy of an engine out or engine fire on take off (below 1000ft) your actions and the pilot's can have a huge impact on the outcome for the event as I'm sure you understand, based on your other comments. However I highly recommend to you and others newbie's, to study the crash reports of the many accidents that have cost us many friends over the years, there is a lot to learn in those reports and will give you a much better understanding of how one link in the chain of events, had it been removed could have changed to out come or kept it from happening in the first place.

Many of the "turbine babies" today have a false sense of security in riding in those AC, the crash this past summer in MO comes to mind, if you look at the known facts, you couldn't have had better odds as to the top notch pilot flying the plane, size of the load and a twin engine AC, a lot of people think it should have been able to maintain and make it back to the airport, yes the twin otter could be capable of it in the right conditions, but this one didn't and we don't know why it didn't, yet, if that crash don't get many of today's jumpers attention there is something wrong, it could happen to any one of us at anytime and with the best pilot in the world at the controls, yet time and time again the end results sometimes don't work out like we plan and hope for.

With all that aside it is up to each and every one of us to act accordingly when the shit hit's the fan, anything less then that is cause for great alarm, and this is why I didn't and won't cut you or others any slack on this issue, it comes from having been thru some rides with people who didn't act as they should and made it much harder to listen for the pilots commands as well as shifting weight around at a critical time. I truly hope you or anyone else doesn't have to experience it first hand, but should you, then you will understand in much better detail the many post's that were slamming you for the comment.

My personal list of friends lost due to aircraft crashes is in the high 20's now, I hate to fly with rookie jump pilots, I hate it when am on a load and we do a hot take off or zero G's just after take off or turn and do buzz jobs, the only ones I see who enjoy this type of flying are the newbie's with less then 5 years in the sport, who weren't around when some events happened and often think it won't happen to us anyway, but yes it can be fun, and the only way you will truly understand is to read about the past events, I mean who here would think a buzz job would be a bad thing? I do, all you have to do is look at the king air in MI also about 6 years ago, I'm sure most on the load thought it was fun, till the plane stalled and fell out of the sky. I'm sure you don't know what accident I'm talking about, you should read about it, as well as some of the others of the past, that info may help you to make a better judgment in the future as to your plan of action or if you think it is safe to fly with a pilot you don't know or at a dz you have never been to.

As for being harsh and not cutting you slack in this thread is in no way saying I wouldn't jump with you or be civil towards you at a dz or enjoy a good debate over a beer or while online in the future, it doesn't mean I hate you or want to kick your ass over a post you have made, I can respect the fact you have a different point of view even if we don't agree, the reason I said in my last post "goodnite" is there was no reason to continue the pissing contest this turned into and to check my attitude at the door on the way out and as you can see the mods felt I was out of line as well, we all have our passions and point of views on here and sometimes it is best to just agree to disagree and remain friendly with each other, we are all here for the same reason to learn, and for the community of a shared interest.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[icevideot 0]

You are right. When I read your post all I saw was someone urging jumpers to make their own decisions and forget what the pilot says. I was in a King Air stall when I had less than 70 jumps. Looking at a video on the plane we determined we lost 2500' in 4 seconds. The pilot was too busy for long discussions and simply said "weight forward" and proceeded to work his ass off. Had we been rushing the door, he couldn't have regained control.

The other thing I saw was a recommendation of bailing out at 500'. Have you ever stood on anything 500' high and thought of jumping off and opening a parachute? Not to mention as someone else pointed out, you may not even stay at 500' long enough to get out and if you do, our reserve systems are not exactly packed for BASE jump altitudes.

We can only go by what you write and don't know what you are thinking. You also have to take into account all the low timers who read your post here. How would you feel sitting in the plane and watching them start a panic toward the door after you decided that the pilot knows what he is doing this time?

No one is intentionally distorting what you have written. It is just hard not to get a little emotional when we see how dangerous it could be to a lot of good people. I hope you can understand my point of view. I am trying to see yours.
Merry Christmas everybody!
Feel free to replace that with the holiday greeting of your choice but the sentiment is the same.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I agree to disagree and I agree with the things you were saying in your last post.Just so you know I'm from a small DZ and I guess I'm a cessna baby.I would also like you to know I'm well aware of my inexperience.I not only am conversing with the experienced skydivers at my DZ in an attempt to learn, I also talk to the pilots about what to do when. And I respect and listen to what they have to say about aircraft emergency.I'm always trying to educate myself.I don't know more than any pilot about this, I have never flown a plane.And I am not some hysterical panicker who believes it's everyman for themselves.Like I said I love the people I jump with.We are family.I would never put their lives at risk to save mine.I think things got twisted around and in my attempt to deffend my point it got misconstrued Maybe after you recover from the burn unit we could hook up at a DZ in Mexico and have a beer.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[stratostar 5]

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Maybe after you recover from the burn unit we could hook up at a DZ in Mexico and have a beer.

I guess your buying, seeing how I'll have all the medical bills and all.....

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Ms.sofaking 0]

Actually I do have about a 500 foot jump planned in the far future.But that will be with a BASE rig and that belongs in another forum.The 500 ft was just a number to say "ball of fire or dangerously low jump?"Kinda of a flip of the coin.I'd choose to jump and hope for line stretch.But it was just about making that kind of decision yourself.I hope no one thought I was recommending anything to anyone.Especially beginners as I am one myself.
Happy holiday's to you too.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[Ms.sofaking 0]

OK, I suppose I will just out of sympathy.Keep in mind I'll be pretty broke after all the jumps I will have had by then.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[billvon 2,991]

There's been a lot of discussion about what one would do in X situation or Y situation here, and most of the discussion has been good in terms of "what if"ing the problem. Keep in mind, though, that each situation is different, and the #1 thing you can do to ensure everyone's survival is to keep a clear head, think rationally and act deliberately.

The pilot is always in charge, and in most cases you should follow his instructions. Exceptions would be disabled pilot or catastrophic structural failure. If, for example, you were on an aircraft and a hop and popper had a premature in the door, you looked out and saw both the jumper and the aircraft's tail falling away from the plane - it would be a good idea to get out, because the pilot's last remaining option for survival will be to get out with you.

Also, if something happens during climbout, it's generally a better idea to exit the people in/by the door, rather than have them climb back in. This happened to us at Rantoul a few years back. We had a freeflyer have a premature deployment as he climbed out; it hung up on the tail and pitched the otter very dramatically nose down. Me and another instructor on the aircraft got everyone out; fortunately by that time most of the canopy had cleared and the pilot had regained control. In cases like that, the pilot has effectively given the exit command by turning on the green light, so he's expecting people to be in the door.

If, however, the pilot is in control and it's during the climb, generally it's better to stay put. Another case in point - years back we had a transmission cover blow off a helicopter we were on, and the pilots did an autorotation landing. We could not see them (we could only see their feet) and it happened at about 1000 feet. But looking at what was going on, they clearly had control of the aircraft even though it was descending rapidly and dropping pieces of itself. We stayed put and landed mostly OK.

But more important than any of these guidelines is the ability to think clearly and quickly. Every situation will be unique, and it's important to keep your head about you and approach it rationally. And the #1 way to do that is to not yell, or hop about, or wave your arms frantically, or poke the pilot, or fight over seatbelts. In an "ideal" emergency (again, there's no such thing) you'd have the people near the door prepared to open it, everyone else prepared to exit, and one person (preferably an experienced jumper or instructor) ready to make a call on exit or not, usually based on what the pilot says. If it does become a bailout, then that one person yells instructions and everyone else follows his lead.

Many skydivers are alpha personality types, and the hardest thing for them to do in a dangerous situation is nothing. But often that's the best thing _to_ do.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

Well said

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas