1st reserve deployment.

[mattjw916 2]

I really don't think anyone was flaming... even exiting at 12k you still had at least 25-30 seconds to try and stop your spin. As for what you were doing wrong I leave it to the AFF/Is to help you.

However almost all spins can be stopped by: RELAX, breathe, arch, and drop the opposite shoulder. This is exactly what I was taught and have never spun even once (unless I wanted to). If you are spinning fast (which you really weren't) merely returning to neutral is not going to stop your spin due to the inertia you have built up.

Buy your beer, talk to your intructors... but dumping high is dangerous, esp without warning... I mean what if a tandem was exiting after you and you pull 3-4k high and spin across the sky with line twists and a chop have them slam into you since they don't pull until 5-6k??? The sky isn't as big as it seems, trust me!

edit: spelling

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[borisattva 0]

Quote

even exiting at 12k you still had at least 25-30 seconds to try and stop your spin. As for what you were doing wrong I leave it to the AFF/Is to help you.

arch breath relax, try to counter steer.
not that many items in my bag of tricks.

once i realized that none of those were accomplishiong anything and i was only spinning faster, the 25-30 seconds youre talking about would not be to try and stop my self.
instead that would be 25-30 seconds to gain the rate of spin and further endager my instructors.
IN FACT, my jm told me that he was about to approach me and pull FOR ME - at THAT ALTITUDE, but stopped when he saw me reaching myself. the consern for instructors was the next reason, after knowing that i wasnt able to stop my spin, for my pull.
as far as i am consered and have been told (not only people with merely hight # of jumps, but also instructor licenses), i did right by pulling when i did.

[Zoter 0]

Perhaps I was missing something...
Firstly..
I personally was never told.....if it aint going well....dump...
During my AFF my 'goals' for the level were clearly outlined and rehearsed as well as the 'rules' for any level
'Pull'...'...Pull at the correct altitude'.......''pull stable'

That being said.....I dont see your instructors making a whole lotta effort to 'get in there' and stop that spin.
I'm not an expert....but certainly have seen a few examples of instructors 'getting in there ' on spins that are much faster than in your posted video with no problems.

You did what you thought you needed to....based on the circumstances and your experience...

My comments were purely on the lack of 'concern' shown after what was potentially ( and realised) as a dodgy deployment.

To be honest and talking from a view point that reflects my Instructors attitudes....I would have thought at least one of them would have deployed soon after you.......not really for any practical reason.....but more for some kind of visable support and concern

Nuff said....Im out

edited to add.......to stop spinning...sure , relax....but when you are in that never ending spin....its not that easy to do......what worked for me ( check with your instructors first...plenty of peeps ready with their flamethrowers!! ).......if you are uncomfortable....relax...by letting your arms and legs go completely limp...and letting the wind mold them to what it wants to do....'go like a rag doll'...the relative wind will do the rest and then you can take back control when you are all stable again

[Fab 0]

I didn't see you countersteer on your video...Probably the reason you kept on spinning? Try to counter turn HARD. I agree with the last poster...instructors should have been able to stop your spin but they were probably giving you some space to stop them yourself. Also don't think dumping at 10k was the best option. Shouldn't the instructors worry about your safety instead of the other way around? Dumping at 10k because you're worried about your instructors sounds a bit strange to me. Your instructors are there to help you with these problems and are (or should) be able to stop your spins...

What did your instructors say about your spin? The best advice you can get is from your instructors...

_______________________________________

[mattjw916 2]

Sorry if I came off as harsh...

Remember... you jumped, you lived... so it was still a successful skydive.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Frenchy68 0]

even exiting at 12k you still had at least 25-30 seconds to try and stop your spin.
Guys,
In this case, only his instructor can really tell him what he did right or wrong. There has been cases of students losing consciousness due to a spin. Maybe the instructor expected him to pull when he got into such a severe spin, and steered clear of him. But that's only speculation. I was taught to dump if out of control for 5 secs.
Talk to your instructor.

Nick

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[mattjw916 2]

Did you even watch the video??? He was in a gentle turn due to poor body position and being tense/not arching... it doesn't take an instructor rating and 500 jumps to figure that one out.

He was in no danger of passing out, watch some Airspeed vids and see how fast you can rotate without incident.

If everyone under 1000 jumps kept their opinions to themselves no one would post here because it would be even more boring.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Frenchy68 0]

He was in no danger of passing out, watch some Airspeed vids and see how fast you can rotate without incident.***
once again, onle HE knew how it felt at the time. And if he was taught to dump if unstable for over 5 seconds, then he did what he was taught. It doesn't mean he couldn't/wouldn't have recovered. It just means that he did what he felt (and was taught) was the right thing to do under the circumstances. I know there are many videos showing extreme behavior, but you will find some at both end of the spectrum.
And I have absolutely nothing against people expressing their opinions, but jumpers with our (huge) numbers of jumps giving advices to other jumpers can be quite hazardous.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[mattjw916 2]

That's a pretty broad statement... did anyone here offer any advise that could be construed as dangerous? Nope. Countersteering is how you stop a fast spin unless the laws of physics have been amended for the state of CA.

Besides it is not like anyone was suggesting 270° hook turns on to final... a relaxed arch never killed anyone, at least not at 10k feet.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Frenchy68 0]

Yes, yes, yes, you are right. I totally agree with you. However, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, he followed what he had been taught to do IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION to the letter. As he stated, he felt that waiting any longer would/could have made things worse for him, and that is why he pulled.

Quote

Besides it is not like anyone was suggesting 270° hook turns on to final

Correct. However, it is not far from suggesting "hey, you had plenty of altitude to keep trying to fix that line over". I agree with most of what you have posted so far, but I do have a problem with

Quote

even exiting at 12k you still had at least 25-30 seconds to try and stop your spin

in this particular case. I am not trying to flame you or anyone, and my apologies if it came across that way.
The good thing is that he has a video he can review with his instructor to be told how to fix the spinning problem.

Cheers,

Nick

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[dnewcomer 0]

Quote

Countersteering is how you stop a fast spin unless the laws of physics have been amended for the state of CA.

M--

High speed, uncontrolled spins have been the subject of lengthy discussions by numerous skydivers with many thousands of jumps on dropzone.com over the years. They have gotten into theories about "Conservation of Angular Momentum" and assorted opinions as to the cause of a violent spin in the first place.

I believe you already mentioned you've never been in an unintentional spin. If that is the case, it is going to be very difficult for you to relate to someone who has.

I'm a low-time jumper, so I vividly remember a lot of things that happened when I made my first 10-15 jumps. (It wasn't that long ago.) Apologies to people with 2,000+ jumps, but it has been my experience that few people with many thousands of jumps are able to remember what it was like to struggle with stability in FF when they started skydiving if they ever struggled at all. Besides....some people are more "natural" skydivers, roller-bladers, rock climbers, water skiers, kayakers, or whatever than others.

On one of those early jumps, I got into a very high-speed spin.....probably on the order of 3 or 4 rotations per second. Didn't panic, but it was frustrating -- seemed like the harder I tried to relax/arch/check extremities for symmetry/etc. the worse it got. Rode it down to about 5,000', then dumped (very dizzy) with numerous line twists but was able to undo them in ample time to land main. When I got on the ground I asked the instructor who was jumping with me if he ever saw anyone in an uncontrolled spin like that. He said, "Not that fast."

Although I agree that tracking or countersteering are solutions to the problem, IMHO it is almost impossible for a beginning jumper to track out of a rapid, uncontrolled spin. When you are going around sooooo fast, you lose orientation and proprioceptive function. Let's face it, we have all seen skydivers with 1,000 or more jumps who can barely track out of a 4-way.

My twist on rapid spins (Heh! Heh! -- a little twisted humor there) from personal experience, watching others, and subsequent experimentation: once you start rotating very rapidly, your upper body tends to bend involuntarily on a vertical axis in the direction of the spin and actually makes it worse. Something as simple as clicking your heels together to see if a leg is down, let alone tracking, becomes very difficult if not impossible. You have to experience this kind of rapid spin to appreciate what I am saying. Spinning uncontrollably at 1 or 2 rotations/sec. is not extreme enough.

Since that time, I have intentionally induced a very rapid spin and the easiest way to stop it is pull extremities in for 2 or 3 seconds, then open up in a relaxed arch. You will not go into a faster spin because of conservation of angular momentum (like an ice skater in a "scratch spin") as some people have suggested in this forum in the past.....I tried it and it just doesn't happen. (If anyone has any ideas why that is so, I would be interested in hearing them.) Pulling everything in takes away the cause of the spin: some unrecognized assymetry of the body, whatever it may be. This action also seems to be something that anyone can do....even an inexperienced skydiver in a violent, uncontrolled spin.

I am sure more experienced jumpers, AFF instructors, coaches, S&TA's, etc. will check in and opine at length upon this subject. There is a great diversity of opinions about uncontrolled spinning.

My $0.02...................free.

D--
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