Zeppo 0 #1 November 27, 2006 This is directed at those more experienced jumpers out there. Currently, I'm jumping a PD260 (old student gear) and I enjoy playing under canopy and trying new things. Over the weekend, I was just doing a left spiral, and when i brought it back up, the right side of the canopy took a scary dive forward, basically coming down in front of me. It was similar to when I come out of a stall too fast. I certainly wasn't expecting it, and it was quite startling. My question is, what would be just plain stupid to do under canopy? I'm sure there's alot that can be done safely (with plenty of altitude of course). Mainly, what I'm concerned about is getting stuck above my canopy, and everything going to hell FAST. Have you done anything under canopy that scared you half to death? Any tips and stories that you can share I'm sure can help all less experienced jumpers.What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #2 November 27, 2006 There are lots of "wrong" things you can do under canopy at your jump experience. I'd strongly urge you to talk to your instructors, the people who have watched you and know your skill level. What you've experienced is fairly normal and could go to hell quickly, but it's unlikely. Your instructors are best equipped to answer and point out how you should act/respond under these sorts of circumstances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #3 November 27, 2006 Stupidist (weirdest) one for me is climbing on top the slider and sitting on it as if it were a seat. Control and landing were awkward, and it sure got some strange looks from those on the ground... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #4 November 27, 2006 QuoteMy question is, what would be just plain stupid to do under canopy? Simple answer? Anything that will... a) cause you to hit someone else b) not allow you to land with a level wing over your head c) induce a malfunction, especially if it is done below your "hard deck" altitude That said... Most production canopies these days behave fairly well unless you do something that induces slack in the lines. It sounds like you've already found two ways of doing this (letting up on brakes too quickly after a stall and coming out of a toggle spiral quickly and with no input on the opposite toggle) Brian Germain has a book about canopy flight that I hear is excellent, and it would probably make a good supplement to a canopy control course and/or a night at the bonfire with a few instructors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #5 November 27, 2006 Ask your instructors to show you the CSPA Skills Grid (USPA's Integrated Student Program, Skydivers' Information Manual in the USA). Heck! The better schools have the Skills Grid nailed to the wall. Then discuss - with an instructor - which skill you should practice next. Read up on those skills in CSPA's Parachutist Information Manual, Volume 2 (PIM2). Do the dive, then discuss your experience with an instructor. Then ask him/her which skill you should practice next. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #6 November 27, 2006 Zeppo, You'd be doing yourself a great service to listen to riggerrob's advice here.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
llkenziell 0 #7 November 27, 2006 How did you manage getting on top of the slider? "Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets -Love Life- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #8 November 27, 2006 Heavy toggle whipping; it has the tendency to throw you on your back. Try it up high - just like practicing stalls - to learn how much is too much. The point is that if you have to react at a low altitude, you don't want to panic turn and spin yourself into the ground."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #9 November 27, 2006 QuoteHow did you manage getting on top of the slider? By means of the Cochran maneuver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #10 November 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow did you manage getting on top of the slider? By means of the Cochran maneuver. Cochran??? can invent his own manuver. The Slider Ride; grab risers on both sides and flip upside down, passing your feet between the risers and under the slider ("skin the cat"), then pass your feet over the slider and hook your legs at the knee on the slider. Now reach up and grab groups of lines and quickly pull yourself up onto the slider. It's been a long time but that's how I remember it. Think it out first carefully so you don't cut yourself away accidentally and do this way up high the first time. Also, this manuver is for a very low percentage of the population and is not proven to improve your sex life... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #11 November 28, 2006 It's also possible to fall out of your harness.Your rig was not designed to support you hanging upside down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #12 November 28, 2006 QuoteIt's also possible to fall out of your harness.Your rig was not designed to support you hanging upside down. I had the legstraps very tight; besides, how do you know what kind of rig I was wearing??? (and, once on the slider I could take the harness off, for all it was doing) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,045 #13 November 29, 2006 >>It's also possible to fall out of your harness.Your rig was not designed >> to support you hanging upside down. >I had the legstraps very tight. Your legstraps don't hold you in when you're upside down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 November 29, 2006 I've never tried it, never even thought about it and definitely wouldn't try it in the future and I'm not really sure about what you are describing but the visual I have in my head says, "Potential Darwin Award." My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #15 November 30, 2006 Quote>>It's also possible to fall out of your harness.Your rig was not designed >> to support you hanging upside down. >I had the legstraps very tight. Your legstraps don't hold you in when you're upside down. Just kidding about the tight legstraps, but I'm guessing you can't picture this. Although very briefly upside down, I end upright, sitting on top the slider, with no weight in the harness. Anyway, I recommend you and Pops don't try this manuver... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
llkenziell 0 #16 November 30, 2006 Is the slider able to support weight like that? I'd love to see a video of this... =) "Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets -Love Life- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #17 November 30, 2006 QuoteI'd love to see a video of this... =) When this goes wrong. Make sure to check out the linked dropzone.com discussion for more info on what's going on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #18 November 30, 2006 I'll watch that shit all day. Reminds me of a friend who, in the old days, used to flip upside down in his harness, fly around, and then flip back over in time to land. One day, he got his foot hung up on something and couldn't get right side up in time and whacked in on his head. We all laughed our asses off and he wore a neck brace for a few weeks. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #19 November 30, 2006 twice (both under 200+ PD mains) ive seen the canopy dive almost underneath, once to me and once to someone else. the first time i did my 2 practice flares and then immediately toggle whipped it, but with no forward speed after the flares the canopy spun up on itself 3 or 4 times above the slider and dived off. the second time somebody at my altitude turned into me so we were head-on, panicked and turned to the left (annoying for me, seeing as one should always turn to the right to avoid a head on collision) but he did it so quick his canopy spun up and dived off below him, i swear he lost all tension in the lines for a second, is it possible to fall into your own canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeppo 0 #20 November 30, 2006 Quoteis it possible to fall into your own canopy? That's a very scary question. What could be done if you did fall into your own canopy?What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #21 November 30, 2006 QuoteReminds me of a friend who, in the old days, used to flip upside down in his harness, fly around, and then flip back over in time to land. One day, he got his foot hung up on something and couldn't get right side up in time and whacked in on his head. There was a time that was very vogue among members of the GK 8-way team. I watched Darren Schuster get a leg caught up when "un-flipping" and he augered into a huge mud puddle over behind the hangar. It was very funny. Lots of people on the team (and others at Raeford) also liked to time their turns so that they would plane out, start sliding, and just let go of all of their controls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #22 November 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteis it possible to fall into your own canopy? That's a very scary question. What could be done if you did fall into your own canopy? Actually, referring to this thread may give you some insight as to how bad it could get: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2502758;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread However, the good news is that it's unlikely you'll get into that kind of jam without extra canopies involved, which happened in that case. The key to not getting your canopy tangled during maneuvers is to keep tension on the lines and to feel the interaction between yourself and the parachute in your maneuvers. If you stall or slow the parachute down, don't just let go of the toggles to bring it out, ease it back up to speed so that the lines have constant tension. As you enter a turn, the parachute turns and then your body turns to catch up with it. If you make the parachute turn a lot faster than your body can turn, there can be line twists - the same with coming out of a turn. The canopy is much lighter than your body, hence less inertia when it comes to changing direction. With practice, you will develop a sense of the inertial and turning forces involved. You can do some pretty extreme things with a canopy without getting into permanent trouble - just do them high enough that you can escape any adverse outcome. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #23 November 30, 2006 Quoteis it possible to fall into your own canopy? I was told that should not happen. That could be a deadly wrap. If it could happen that canopy would be grounded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #24 November 30, 2006 QuoteQuoteis it possible to fall into your own canopy? I was told that should not happen. That could be a deadly wrap. If it could happen that canopy would be grounded. An excellent example of irony in understatement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VincentVL. 0 #25 November 30, 2006 I have seen footage (possibly on skydivingmovies) of a guy doing barrel roles with a canopy. (Front view of the canop+jumper; centercell is middle of a clock; diver is one of the dials; diver turns clockwhise round the center which obviously also turns...wow I'm confusing) I suppose if you don't roll through, you'd fall in right? Also...jumper in the movie did one too low and bounced hard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
