Now I'm really confused, S/L or AFF??

[skyflygirl1 0]

Having spent quite a lot of time reading through these threads I thought I'd made a good decision by wanting to go the AFF route next year. However I keep seeing people recommending S/L as an 'old fav'.

Just want some more direct opinions about this

Which is better, AFF or S/L?

Sorry if you've read threads like this many times before

Fear is Temporary, Regret is Forever!

www.myspace.com/byasa

[Mike111 0]

AFF- safer quicker, but more expensive. More fun- freefall!!!!

Fuck SL. takes years

[skyflygirl1 0]

Forgot to mention I'm in the UK, not sure if things are different across the pond.

Fear is Temporary, Regret is Forever!

www.myspace.com/byasa

[freeflyit 0]

Definately AFF. It is so much better. First off because you get to experinece freefall and learn about stability and basic maneuvers. Secondly, an instructor is there with you so you have a lesser chance of f***ing up. Third, it's way more fun. Go AFF, you won't regret it.

[wildfan75 1]

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AFF- safer quicker, but more expensive. More fun- freefall!!!!

Fuck SL. takes years

SL does not take years. I did my s/l class on April 22nd, got my class A license on June 18th and my class B sometime in August I think. In my oppinion whether or not you take AFF or S/L, you end up in the same place. I've jumped all summer long with people that have taken AFF and I honestly believe that s/l was the way to go for me. I could leave the a/c stable from the beginning and I never freaked out about my hop n pop from 3500'. I got my class A license for the same cost as what some people pay for 7 AFF jumps, assuming they don't have to repeat any levels. Hmmm, 7 jumps or 25 jumps?

It's a personal decision. I think AFF is a production of the truly commercial dropzone, vs. a dropzone that it's just happy squeeky by but doing it for the love of the sport, which is a whole 'nother issue.

Skyflygrl1--check out this thread...good debate on AFF v. s/l.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2341587;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Hopefully I did the clicky right...

Editted to add: You jump in the UK, weather isn't always the greatest. With AFF, you have to get altitude. With S/L, all you need is 3-3500' so you'll have more of a chance of actually getting to jump than AFF.

[Andy9o8 2]

First, use the Search function to read all the previous threads where S/L vs. AFF are compared and contrasted.

Both methods work fine and get you ready for your A license. AFF gives you a lot of freefall training right out of the box, but it's very expensive on a single-jump basis, so if you have to repeat a level, the expense may frustrate you. S/L is much more affordable on a single-jump basis, and there are fewer skill sets to master on each jump; but the downside is that it's harder to work on typical student stability problems when you've only got 5 or 10 seconds of freefall per jump and don't have an instructor in freefall with you. And once (on the S/L progression method) you work up to longer freefalls (say, 30+ seconds), it is helpful to have an instructor in freefall with you to work on maneuvers like turns, rolls, flips and tracking.

My personal favorite is a hybrid program that combines the best of all methods, but DZs that offer true hybrid programs can be hard to find.

P.S.: In my experience, 9 out of 10 jumpers who dismissively piss on the S/L progression method are newer jumpers who don't have much of a personal basis for comparison. AFF will get you good freefall skills quickly. S/L is slower (but you can still get your A license in 25 jumps or so), but if money is a serious consideration, going S/L progression may make the difference between keeping yourself in the air and not jumping at all.

[Katherine 0]

Hi
I learnt though SL and I started almost exactly this time last year.

Positive points:
- I started over winter so there was quite often cloud, we got to jump if the cloud was high enough, AFF students didn't.
- Cost, SL tickets are subserdised though my uni club, but even so it is still easier to pay to do a few SL jumps every weekend than a few AFF levels every weekend. This means you have a better chance of staying current if money is an issue.
- I spent a lot of time atthe DZ while a student waiting for the weather to clear etc, getting to know people and more about the sport. I felt that I knew a lot more about skydiving in general once I got my a license than others that got theirs after a 2 week holiday.
- its no biggie to repeate a level, it is fairly cheep and most people do.

Bad points
- lack of in-air coaching, so your body position (although stable) may not be the best at the end of it.
- lack of freefall atthe start. (although that 1st freefall is amazing, you feel that you have really 'earnt' it)
- dummy pulls. I was lucky and didn't get stuck on them, but many people do due to the 24h for 1st freefall thing.

hope this is some help.

Leeds University Skydiving Club
www.skydiveleeds.co.uk

[peek 21]

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AFF- safer quicker, but more expensive.

Safer?!!!

Please quote the source of statistics from which you formed this opinion.

[Thanatos340 1]

1. Exactly how is AFF safer?? That is a load of Crap in my opinion.

2. Static Line takes the same amount of time as AFF to get the "A" License.

3. It usually costs less to go through a Static line progression. Repeated Jumps are a Hell of lot cheaper.

Most newbies went through AFF and really dont understand the static line progression.
I did both programs at different times. Did Static Line in 1992 and then came back to the sport in 2002 and did AFF.

Static line was alot less stressful. Learn in smaller steps and generally offered only at smaller DZ`s where you will get much more one on one training.

AFF is generally the preferred method in todays world. Each progression has it good points. I would not say either one is Safer or Better than the other.

For most, AFF is all they offer but do not rule out Static line. Talk to the Instructors at the DZ. Ignore everything you read here (Especially from Low time jumpers like me).

[Zeppo 0]

As a person who took AFF from the beginning of the year, and only just last week did I get my license. (Bad weather just kept getting in the way)

For a first jump AFF is the way to go...however, as a training method, I think S/L (IAD) is the way to go for a number of reasons.

You get the chance to jump more due to not needing altitute.

You only need a JumpMaster instead of a AFF instructor, so it's easier to get into the air. (At least at my DZ, there are more JM's than AFF instructors)

It's cheaper per jump, and it really sucks to have to re-do a AFF level (specially level 1-3)

Keep in mind, this is just the training path. Both lead to the same thing, and you'll have alot of fun doing either.

Blue Skies.

What goes up, must come DOWN!!!

[WILDBILLAQR 0]

Both methods are safe. Both methods have an instrutor with you while you are on student status. Both methods teach you freefall skills!
If money is not an issue then AFF is a good way to go, if money is tight, then Static line is better on the wallet (for the price of 1 aff jump you can do 3 s/l)
One thing that I have seen teaching is the S/L students are almost always better under canopy when they get on solo status. And whats the most important part of any skydive? THE LANDING!
Either way you go have fun,be safe, and don't try to learn skydiving on the I-net! Listen only to YOUR INSTUCTORS!
BTW, I am a S/L-I and will be earning my AFF-I this February

----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

[DougH 270]

I think it would be nice to do a mix of SL and AFF. I think that would be way better than the *tandem* progression, which I think is just a way to fleece students of their money.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Orange1 0]

I did both. I started off S/L, did it till first freefall, then I switched to AFF (took a week off work and banged it out). Both have benefits and both have drawbacks. For me, the "slow" start of S/L was good - I honestly don't know if I would have continued if I'd gone AFF from the start. But then I reached a point where it got "too" slow for me. I'm happy with the way I did it. But as the others have said, both get you to your A... fwiw, my experience is that people tend to recommend whatever they did themselves! One thing about S/L of course is that you can say (assuming you haven't done a tandem) is that you did your first jump out of a plane all on your own

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Stiffler 0]

AFF is the way to go
ask yourself this question....would you like instructors to be in the air with you from the word go, to help if needed... or would you prefer to be on your own from the word go and have no instructor with you if you needed one?

[wildfan75 1]

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ask yourself this question....would you like instructors to be in the air with you from the word go, to help if needed... or would you prefer to be on your own from the word go and have no instructor with you if you needed one?

IMO, that's a useless arguement.

In AFF you need an instructor(s) with you in case you don't pull your rip cord and to make sure you keep stable.

In S/L you don't need your instructor to fly with you because the S/L is pulling your ripcord and you leave stable (or have very little time to become unstable if you totally beef the exit).

I also did somewhat of a hybrid training. I was doing full altitude by ff #5 with another jumper, but I was leaving by myself and staying stable, because I learned via S/L how to leave stable.

[Beverly 1]

Hey,

I am an instructor in both SL and AFF.

If you really want to Skydive and continue, then I would recommend the AFF route if you can afford it.
The progression and learning curve is steeper.
You experience freefall much quicker and have 2 on 1 instruction.

PM me if you have more questions on this.

Cheers
Bev

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

[Stiffler 0]

Quote

Quote

ask yourself this question....would you like instructors to be in the air with you from the word go, to help if needed... or would you prefer to be on your own from the word go and have no instructor with you if you needed one?

IMO, that's a useless arguement.

In AFF you need an instructor(s) with you in case you don't pull your rip cord and to make sure you keep stable.

In S/L you don't need your instructor to fly with you because the S/L is pulling your ripcord and you leave stable (or have very little time to become unstable if you totally beef the exit).

I also did somewhat of a hybrid training. I was doing full altitude by ff #5 with another jumper, but I was leaving by myself and staying stable, because I learned via S/L how to leave stable.

yeah, what ever

[WILDBILLAQR 0]

IMHO All three methods have their place. I came though a Tandem/IAF program. I had only planned on making 1 jump for my lifes checklist

----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

[Orange1 0]

Quote

ask yourself this question....would you like instructors to be in the air with you from the word go, to help if needed... or would you prefer to be on your own from the word go and have no instructor with you if you needed one?

The only help that might be needed "from the word go" on S/L is when you're under canopy, and you're not gonna have an instructor with you under canopy in either method.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ron 10]

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AFF- safer quicker, but more expensive. More fun- freefall!!!!

Fuck SL. takes years

Being a SL AND an AFF Instructor I can tell you that you are wrong on almost all accounts.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

AFF will teach you to jump in a hurry, for a price. But most cases AFF students lack some very important skills at the end of the program. Most don't know how to pack, spot, and are afraid of low exits that could save their life. This is not always the case, but it seems quite common.

SL is slower and the focus is on survival, not good flying skills. One benefit of SL is that once on FF you cans till jump if you do not have 9500 feet. So you can stay current in climates that are not optimal.

The big thing is that once off student status, people focus on RW skills, and not on spotting/packing/survial skills. So they often never get these skills. While someone with those skills WILL work on getting better at RW.

Most people who say SL sucks, is dangerous...ect....Don't know shit about the program.

It is a choice you have to make...But if you choose AFF, please work on the Spotting/Packing/and low exits that will save your life.

BTW both a SL and an AFF Instructor...So I know a bit about each.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[b_dog 0]

I also faced this dilemma. I too really want to get into sport skydiving and with the two main methods, one has to make a decision.

At first I was seriously considering AFF, but now I've decided I'm going for SL. The main factor? Money. Doing SL will be half the cost of AFF, and as a college student straining to cover tuition and other bills, any avenue I can take to reduce costs is necessary.

But it's also due to what the program offers. I would have liked to go for AFF for the immediate freefall time, and freefall is what I love most. But as others have said, canopy control and landing is the most important part of a jump, and the immediate focus on canopy control in SL is a good idea for me, I think. Once I'm more solid and can trust myself with canopy control and landing then I feel I can focus better on freefall dynamics.

I'm also one of those individuals who works better in dealing with material one piece at a time. AFF looks pretty demanding and seems to throw a lot at the student at once, and I know I'd have to repeat a couple of levels. The more gradual approach of SL would be better for me in this regard.

Plus, depending on the program I suppose, you get more actual jump numbers with an SL program than the 7 jumps of AFF. The SL program I'm going for has 10 jumps, so that brings me 3 jumps closer to the 25 for the A license for half the cost of AFF. Sure, after my 10th jump, I won't be near the freefalling skills of a student who just finished AFF, but those remaining 15 jumps to my A license should give me ample time to concentrate on that aspect of the sport.

It's too bad SL is harder to find at DZs these days. My home DZ which is just a 30 minute drive from where I live only offers AFF, so to do SL I have to drive 4 miles north.

Good luck with which every way you go!

[pilatus_p 0]

There's some unusual arguments going on in this thread. I have done both SL and AFF, and IMO I have to say AFF is much better.

I cannot understand these views of SL being better because:

1) you dont have to pull and hence need no JM

True - for the early jumps. Once you're past DRCP's you're onto your first short delay. 'you dont have to pull' is misinformation to a newbie, because presuming you get through the first 5 jumps straight off, you are pulling on jump 6. Oh and yeah - dont drop the DRCP or that is going to cost you extra ...

2) can jump when AFF'ers can't

Again, true for early jumps. But get on to your delays, and you need to go higher. That 3500' cloud base is starting to look the same as it does to the AFF'ers ...

3) Static line doesnt take longer and encourages greater stability

In the UK, during ther colder / wetter months (e.g 9 out of 12 of them), it can take FOREVER. Of all the guys I know that tried to stick with RAPS, most dropped out because of waiting for jumpable weather, queueing to get on rare loads when the weather was OK, and then having to go and do it again (and again) when they went unstable on their 10 second delays.

This final point was most people's reason to switch to AFF - it SCARY tumbling through the air, with your view going blue green blue green blue green and then hoping that you manage to dump stable. All this after around 30 jumps - because they lost the advantage of recency by waiting weeks between each jumpable slot! SL may be great in the US in warmer climates, but in the UK, my money is on AFF every time. One good weekend and you can get through, and if you go unstable there's a JM there to save your ass. If you can punch out 18 RAPS jumps in two days then I would be impressed (though of course I am sure saying that will encourage a flood of superheroes to reply saying they did it last week)

Cost comparison:
-----------------------

AFF = 8 jumps, total cost £1500 plus any resits, Early levels are expensive e.g level 1 £300

RAPS:

FJC + jump 1 = £200
17 jumps @ £35 each = £595 total cost £795.

If you do what my mates did and take 30 jumps, that cost climbs to £1250.

Finally, the first few seconds of freefall for my first AFF was about the sensory overload (eg errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr WHAAAAAAAAAAAT????), but after 5 or so seconds I was aware and learning. With SL, I wasn't even through the SO before I had a canopy above my head. I got GATW for the first 2 jumps, which I dont even remember until the canopy opened.

A MAJOR advantage of AFF - your jumps are videoed. Unstable? Screwed up your pull? Trying to tear the PC from your legstrap when you have a BOC? (ahem. yes that was me) ... your JM can SHOW YOU exactly what you did, 5 minutes after you land ... RAPS will not have this advantage unless you ask for someone to fly camera for you.

I switched to AFF. I'm glad I did, as are the many skydivers I know who did the same thing ...

In the UK, if you have the patience, time and skill, then RAPS would be a cheaper option. If you want to get qualified and begin working on things like CH, RW and FS asap, then AFF for me, every time.

Bit more RAPS info: http://www.freefalladdicts.com/article_static_line.shtml

EDIT: Definitely agree with the spotting, packing etc. Most UK courses do seem to emphasise these, but the inevitable sitting around waiting for jumpable weather in the UK means you have fu*k all else to do with your time ...

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[rehmwa 2]

I did both (static line through 20 second delays then finished up levels 4 - 7).

Since you have access to a wind tunnel which has even better hands on freefall coaching than AFF, I don't think it matters which progression you take. Perhaps just set up a set of goals that prove you are good to jump alone (graduate) and tailor the types of jumps to achieve that skill set.

Perhaps your instructors can make something custom for you. (static line progression through 20 seconds, with tunnel time and a quick finish through the later AFF levels since the tunnel time will give you good freefall basics and body position - with short delays on cloudy days for experience and set goals.)

Include in the goals packing, spotting, canopy control stuff too in addition to freefall mobility requirements (turns and mobility, stability, heading control, alti checks). No matter what type of training jump, always have a set pull altitude that you commit to get every single time. When solo, it's up to you to fail yourself if you don't meet that requirement.

Be ready to change your plan if something works well for you.

It doesn't have to be 'either/or' if the instructors want to work it with you.

Which is better? depends on your needs..... It's good you have the option.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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(though of course I am sure saying that will encourage a flood of superheroes to reply saying they did it last week)

it always does

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants