student canopy question

[futurehighflyer 0]

what size canopy does a 165 pound guy start with on AFF. And generally what wing loading do most dz's put AFF students on. Thanks

[phoenixlpr 0]

Trust you instructor(s)! Do not worry about this. Students should be under 1.0 anyway.

[futurehighflyer 0]

I definatley will trust my instuctors once I have some. Im just wondering what canopy size students usually get put under. Also, is there a limit to how big the parachute should be? can it be dangerous to have a parachute that is too large?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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can it be dangerous to have a parachute that is too large?

That's just a myth.

[slotperfect 7]

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That's just a myth.

Au contraire, mon frere. In mild conditions (the "flat field sunny day" scenario), a very lightly loaded canopy makes little difference at all except it may take the student forever to reach the ground. When it gets windy, and a bit of turbulence (even mild) gets introduced into the equation, landing a very lightly loaded canopy can become problematic. Read "What should I know about flying in turbulence?" and "Is it safer to be under a smaller or larger canopy when flying in turbulence?" on this page.

Arrive Safely

John

[slotperfect 7]

Student canopies are very large, very docile, and very forgiving of mistakes. As phxplr said, they are normally loaded well under 1.0:1.

Hopefully that will satisfy your curiosity until you get going with your training. The advice to trust and listen to your instructors is very important. You will learn much more from them initially than reading manuals or these forums. See what I mean by reading this thread.

Best of success in your training!

Arrive Safely

John

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Au contraire, mon frere. In mild conditions (the "flat field sunny day" scenario), a very lightly loaded canopy makes little difference at all except it may take the student forever to reach the ground. When it gets windy, and a bit of turbulence (even mild) gets introduced into the equation, landing a very lightly loaded canopy can become problematic.

165 lbs makes 185..190 as exit weight, that means ~WL0.7 and a 260 sqft canopy. I think 260 is a quite common size of student canopy. I think WL 0.7 is quite acceptable wing load for even BASE or accuracy.

[slotperfect 7]

I agree that .7 is a very common wing loading, and that 260 is a very common student canopy size. I also agree that is is an acceptable wing loading for students - I don't know enough about BASE to comment, and accuracy WL is a good subject for a separate thread.

We protect students by enforcing student maximum wind limits, and grounding them when conditions are "squirrelly" despite being within limits (a frequent re-occurring 4-14 MPH gust spread for example). Therefore their chances of encountering the problems due to light WL that I spoke of are hopefully very low.

My point was that dismissing a question about a canopy being "too large" as a myth was not quite correct. Notice that PD's minimum weight column for the Navigator student canopy says "VLC" - varies with landing conditions. Wind velocity and turbulence, along with DZ elevation are being referred to here.

Arrive Safely

John

[Tornolf 0]

My vented Fox 245 flies great at 0.6, especially when rocking back and forth from stalling to brakes to sink. I've flown a vented Fox 265 without covers (which means worse flare) at 0.55 in 10-15mph winds and it worked just fine. The 245 doesn't fly much different than an unvented Fox 220 at 0.65.

Keep in mind that all of these are 5-15 second canopy rides being open between 100-250ft

A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world.
-TJ

[phoenixlpr 0]

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My point was that dismissing a question about a canopy being "too large" as a myth was not quite correct. Notice that PD's minimum weight column for the Navigator student canopy says "VLC" - varies with landing conditions.

I've started with "trust your instructor". He/she knows the limitation of the gear.

[AFFI 0]

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what size canopy does a 165 pound guy start with on AFF. And generally what wing loading do most dz's put AFF students on. Thanks

Different schools have different philosophies.

Some use big docile canopies (Mantas) and some use ZP canopies such as Sabers and Navigators and start different students out on different sizes and wing loadings.

The instructors at the school you will be learning at already have their philosophy figured out and will put you under a canopy that will be a good starting point for you in the type of system they utilize.

So there is not a single answer from DZ to DZ.

Have fun – and trust your instructors…

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[phoenixlpr 0]

I have seen a first timer having landing difficulties, panic and flare a Nav220 about 4-5m high and coming down and break his leg. It was quite a shocking experience. I broke my leg about a year before on that very same gear. I wasn't a student that time. He was a thin/normal shaped man, so his WL was under 1.0.

So? What is you pick? Small or big?

[Buried 0]

as people said, it would vary from dz to dz. people have different mentalities on how training should be performed. i know many people (including myself) that have started at or near (above or under) 1:1 on sabre2s and others who are weight 135/150 and are put on a 260 manta .

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[dragon2 2]

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i know many people (including myself) that have started at or near (above or under) 1:1 on sabre2s and others who are weight 135/150 and are put on a 260 manta .

Make that a manta 288. WL 0.45:1. So?

I did a no-flare landing on jump number 4, didn't hurt anything except my pride. Try that with a 1:1 sabre. Same for the downwinder at jump number 20 or so. I vote for big ass student canopies for the first jumps!

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Buried 0]

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Make that a manta 288. WL 0.45:1. So?

like everything, it depends on the people around you, winds, the dz landing area, adeptness of the student, etc.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[MagicGuy 0]

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here on the 'too large' issue.

Being a very light guy (5'8 with an exit weight of 150lbs) I felt the MOST comfortable under canopy when I progressed to my own gear, a Triathlon 160. Being under anything over 190 square feet was a bit intimidating for me. Forward penetration into the wind (even light wind) was extremely difficult because of my light wingloading, and I felt like the canopy was more in control of me than I was of it.

When I started jumping a 170, I finally felt like I was in control. I could penetrate into the wind and I was landing where I wanted to land.

Anyways, just my two cents. Just as a point of reference for you, I started off on a Nav 260 for my first couple of AFF jumps, was on a 240 Nav for the rest of my AFF, and jumped a Nav 200 followed by an F-111 PD 190 for another 25-30 jumps after that.

Ahh, how I love my Triathlon :)

[mrGuy 0]

At 175lbs. I had my first ten jumps on 210 canopies. I know this may seem small, but I had no idea about anything, and thats what was given to me. Worked fine for me.

When I switched to Jumptown as my home DZ, I was surprised that most of the student rigs had 220 and up...to 300!!!

I've been using a 220. Thats whats available and I'll use it.
I took a 260 last time I was up, and HOLY CRAP!! when that thing opened, I looked up and said Shit THATS BIG! It kind of freaked me out to have this giant tent above me.

I'll use it again if thats all I have, but I turned down using a 300 two weeks ago. Just figured I'd wait for another smaller one to be packed.

Basically, the instructors wouldn't let you get geared up if they thought you needed something different. Even on my self supervised sub-class A jumps there is always someone with their eye on me it seems.

Instructors know best. They have to.

[futurehighflyer 0]

Thanks much for the insight. Ive always been curious as to how the instuctors decide the size of the canopy.

[futurehighflyer 0]

One more question? When i start jumping i dont plan on downsizing very much , if i ever do downsize at all. I just want to learn how to "fly my body" however and where ever in the sky i feel. Is it uncommon for people to just stay on a large canopy for most of their skydiving career? Also, does the size of the container while packed with those large canopies make it harder or easier to fly?

[MagicGuy 0]

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One more question? When i start jumping i dont plan on downsizing very much , if i ever do downsize at all.

That's what everyone says...

I think you may be thinking too far ahead. These are all questions that you can ask your instructor once you start your AFF. I don't mean to sound like an ass, but your instructors are the only ones that you should really be taking advice from.

[DougH 270]

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One more question? When i start jumping i dont plan on downsizing very much , if i ever do downsize at all.

I remember saying that... and I was on a smaller canopy to start. "I love this hornet 210, I don't even want to downsize, I just want to buy a cloan of this canopy"

I am very happy with my current canopy, and I plan on hanging out under if for a couple hundred jumps, but that is what I said the first time around.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Is it uncommon for people to just stay on a large canopy for most of their skydiving career?

Yes. Smaller parachutes are a lot more fun to fly, and most people want something smaller than student size so they have more flexibility in the winds they jump in.

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Also, does the size of the container while packed with those large canopies make it harder or easier to fly?

When kept within reason it doesn't make a difference (I have rigs holding a 105 main + 150 reserve up to a 245 main + 253 reserve) although the smaller rig is more comfortable to have on your back when waiting arround.

Very large student rigs (that fit no one) can move arround on very small people and make life more difficult.

[hexadecimal 0]

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as people said, it would vary from dz to dz. people have different mentalities on how training should be performed. i know many people (including myself) that have started at or near (above or under) 1:1 on sabre2s and others who are weight 135/150 and are put on a 260 manta .

Shh... you'll upset all of dorkzone talking like that

I'm one of the people who started at around 1:1 on a modern sport canopy, and ended up slightly over 1:1 towards the end of my student progression... and I've yet to injure myself ~400 jumps later (and now loaded at 1.45:1 on a fully elliptical high performance canopy), unlike many of the retards here who constantly talk about fucking themselves up and not being able to stand up landings under the 200+ square foot boats they've been jumping for 300 jumps (spread out over 7 years of course, because currency means nothing, especially when you're clearly too busy giving advice on dorkzone to actually skydive).

[kelpdiver 2]

DZ.com has seen too many postings like your's with an ironic result.

Students seem to break bones (or worse) on just about any canopy. I wish I did more of those jumps on a fusion or a navagator than a PD or a Falcon, but there was no problem overloading a tad right after I left student status.

[bloody_trauma 2]

assuming everything goes fine for my progression me and my insructor are talking about my getting a triathlon 170 or 185 no talk of wing loading yet , i weigh about 170-175 depending on how much i exersize. how is it exactly that a JM come to the conclusion of what a student can handle, what plays into that decision.

Fly it like you stole it