Too Much Canopy for Me?

[FireMedicJumper 0]

My current canopy is a Sabre2 150 loaded at about 1.4. I have 500 jumps, and about 100 on this canopy/WL.

I am considering purchasing a different canopy for my second rig to transition to an elliptical. I have a couple of jumps on a Stiletto at the same WL and am considering a Stiletto 150 or a Samurai 150.

There would be no canopy size change, but just the change to an elliptical and in the case of the Samurai change to an airlocked canopy.

I would like to get the input of some of the experienced jumpers here about either of these possible options. I am not swooping, but do enjoy flying the canopy aggressively while at higher altitudes. My main concern is to not do something stupid and get myself broken up.

[Elisha 1]

Why go elliptical? If you want airlocks, there is the Lotus as well by bigairsportz.

[FireMedicJumper 0]

I don't really care that much about the airlocks. I was actually shopping for a Stiletto and found what looks like a good deal on the Sam in the right size , colors, condition, etc.

[bob.dino 1]

I can't directly answer your question, but I can provide some possibly-related info.

I did 30-50 jumps on a Safire2 170 loaded at 1.2 before my Samurai 170 showed up. The difference between the two was night and day - the Samurai is significantly more responsive, dives more, and is all-around a step up in performance.

However, I'm not entirely sure that an elliptical is what you're after - what exactly do you mean by "flying the canopy aggressively while at higher altitudes"?

[WILDBILLAQR 0]

I'm about to make the same change, but, I jump in the desert w/ sometimes very turbulent conditions, and will demo a SAM. I do like the concept when jumping in my summer conditions. I will be trying other conopys as well.
BTW, this trhead will most likly be moved to "Gear & Rigging"

----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

[FireMedicJumper 0]

I guess what I mean is that I have fun yanking and banking and doing hard toggle turns and front risers turns up high but I take it pretty easy for landings etc.

I had alot of fun on the Stiletto but if the Sam isn't gonna be too much for me I might buy one if its a good deal.

[dharma1976 0]

the sam dives more than the stilletto with out building up as much riser pressure...it also has a larger recover arc...meaning that if you do decide at some pint to maybe take up some swoopage in your life the samurai will be the canopy you want as it will be more condusive to the path swooping seems to be going...plus they dont call em spinettos for nothing :-P

having jumped both I prefer the samurai....

dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[wmw999 2,534]

If you want a ton of fun up high, nothing dives in a turn like a Diablo. Yes, it's older, and a 7-cell to boot, but that just means they're cheap.

But man do they spin and dive in a turn . Their front ends are square, and their back ends are elliptical.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kkeenan 14]

I think you'll really like the Stiletto. When I went from a Sabre to the Stiletto, it was really a blast because of the increased turning performance, nice openings, and good landings. If you're careful with your landings, you should do fine.

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[JJohnson 0]

If your concern is not doing something stupid then you are in luck...as you are in direct control of that. My two cents on the canopy choice....Samurai. Great canopy, I was very impressed by it. Great performance and the coolest openings. Fast but incredibly soft.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JohnMitchell 16]

LIne twists on opening may lead to an unrecoverable spiral descent. You may have to chop occasionally. At your wingloading, you will still be able to make straight in appproaches and even half braked approaches. This means you should be able to land this canopy anywhere without getting hurt. Make sure you practice flying and turning in half brakes.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Why go elliptical? If you want airlocks, there is the Lotus as well by bigairsportz.

Control sensitivity/feel, how they shut-down, and how the Samurai dives. I find the Stiletto and Samurai to be a lot more enjoyable to fly than the less agressive canopies I've tried, and even if you aren't loaded high enough to need the lower shutdown speed it's nice with a tail wind or on a hot windless summer day at altitude .

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I guess what I mean is that I have fun yanking and banking and doing hard toggle turns and front risers turns up high but I take it pretty easy for landings etc.

A canopy like the Samurai will dive harder in response to less control input than a more conservative design like the Spectre whether the input is intended or not.

If you haven't explored the full flight and control range, know when you're too steep too low, know how to correct excess pitch bank and speed, and know how to turn without altitude loss you're more likely to have that happen unintentionally.

This combined with incident reports that read along the lines of "the deceased was not a hook turn type person" makes me worry more about people who "take it easy" than those who pursue high performance landings.

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I had alot of fun on the Stiletto but if the Sam isn't gonna be too much for me I might buy one if its a good deal.

I wouldn't tell anyone to jump a smaller or more agressive canopy; although if you're going to work through Brian Germain's canopy drills under your current and new canopies you are probably within his guidelines (> 300 jumps for the Samurai, 1.0 + .1 / 100 jump wing loading limit with adjustments for smaller canopies and higher altitudes) for the canopy and changing shapes but not wing loading is a lot more prudent than changing both at the same time.

I put about 600 jumps under a Stiletto 120 and didn't find anything (Crossfire, Extreme FX, Omega, Safire, Spectre, Blade Runner, there are newer non-square designs I haven't tried) as enjoyable to fly until I tried a Samurai. It pretty much does everything the Stiletto does right (sensitive to toggle, riser and harness input, flat glide (with rear risers)) but has a less positive recovery arc, longer recovery arc, more manageable front riser pressure, flies better with harness input, shuts down slower, etc. After shrinking my belly 20+ pounds I got myself a Samurai 105.

[MrBrant 0]

I, too, will have to say that I enjoy the Samura much more than the stiletto.

I've only got about 3 jumps on the stiletto, and about 20 on the SAM, so these "findings" are in no way scientific, or might not even be reproducable, but these are my observations:

openings:

I find the Sam to have a much softer opening, and seems to be less "picky" about how you pack it. (I've really trash packed it a couple times, and it's been fine.

The other thing I noticed is that the Samurai is much more sensitive to harness input (espeically with the brakes stowed). so, if you find yourself spinning on opening constantly (like I was at first), make sure you're sitting square in the harness.


flight:

Again, I would take the samurai over the stiletto. the sam SEEMS to turn just a bit faster. My forward speed seems to be a bit faster too.
I didn't really compare descent rates, or the ability to get back from a long spot.

landing:

The Sam seems to have a bit more power in the flare. Although I'm still getting used to the flare stroke, I usually get a further swoop witht he Sam, than I was able to get with the Stiletto, doing similar approaches. (Like I said, only 3 jumps ont he stiletto, so hardly a comparion)

Like others have said, the samurai has a much longer recovery arc. It's taking some gettting used to for me, since I came from a canopy with an uber-short recovery arc (the Pilot), but I'm liking it alot.


Anyway, those are just a couple of my observations - take what you will from them, or leave them completly.....

[AFFI 0]

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plus they dont call em spinettos for nothing

They call em that cuz it rymes and sounds funny?

These are the only reasons I can think of because tagging the Stiletto as a problematic spinner is not an accurate statement. Not at all...

Stiletto is a good canopy, fun preformance, recovers quickly - forgiving low to the ground. Can't go wrong with it as a good place to start your transition - PD is tried and true...

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[billvon 3,070]

>. . . because tagging the Stiletto as a problematic spinner is not an accurate statement.

Well, it's certainly a lot more prone to spin-up than, say, an equivalently-sized Nitro, or Pilot, or Sabre 2, or Crossfire. If you're comparing it to a Mamba, then you may see a similar tendency to spin up.

Last week I had eight line twists on a Nitro loaded at 2:1. On a Stiletto that's almost a guaranteed cutaway; the canopy will start turning in one direction, then accelerate until you start pulling serious G's. The Nitro held its course until I got out of them.

[dharma1976 0]

Quote

Quote

plus they dont call em spinettos for nothing

They call em that cuz it rymes and sounds funny?

These are the only reasons I can think of because tagging the Stiletto as a problematic spinner is not an accurate statement. Not at all...

Stiletto is a good canopy, fun preformance, recovers quickly - forgiving low to the ground. Can't go wrong with it as a good place to start your transition - PD is tried and true...

-

ahh I was just being silly about the spinnetto comment...although I have seen some nasty spinners on stillettos....

truthfully any elliptical canopy has the ability to take off at the ground at high speed...I even had on happen on my crossfire2 129 loaded at like 1.45 or so...

but I have to say I have gotten very used to dealing with toggle pops these days as I have bad habits and grab my risers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[kkeenan 14]

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...tagging the Stiletto as a problematic spinner is not an accurate statement.

I agree. I've jumped one for quite a while. I've had a twist now and then, but never anything close to a spin.

I think that, due to their sensitivity to harness input, they will respond to poor body position (asymmetric loading) on opening. That can be cured by simply having your shit together and opening stable.

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[freakyrat 1]

I jumped the Sam in high winds at Rantoul one year and really appreciated the airlocks because the canopy was rock stable in those conditions at the time. Also the Sam has very postive toggle pressure, not heavy but the canopy makes you feel that you are one with it. Openings were a little quick but not hard.

Chris