sparkie 0 #51 October 6, 2006 QuoteBut even for seasoned skydivers, I would imagine that even many of them would, before each jump, think that this could be the last I'm reluctant to speak for others but, I seriously doubt that. Do you step into your car every time thinking it could be your last drive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #52 October 6, 2006 I think about bouncing usually once on the way up to altitude, but my imagination is usually pretty morbid. After the thought passes I do one last EP practice. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #53 October 6, 2006 QuoteIt's a quick death...isn't it? the act of dying would be quick, but you'd see it coming. People who had cypres saves (or lower saves) can tell you that you see it coming.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jarrodh 0 #54 October 6, 2006 Whenever I go to the dropzone and I see my instructor Eric about to take a load of people for some tandems and they start talking like the creator of this post does he says "sorry no jumps for today". People who focus on death in skydiving should stay the fuck away from the dropzone. If you keep thinking about your gonna end up willing it upon yourself.2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfullerman 0 #55 October 6, 2006 QuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Yes...and no, brother Twardo.It's just the opposite if you survive. I landed-- -- a 26 ft lopo reserve in streamer mode. Didn't feel a thing when I contacted the earth. Now, when I woke up ......OYE ! And it has hurt every day since. (2 weeks will be twenty years) When I think back on twenty years of pain, and wonder if it was worth the six years of jumping I got in..........yep...without a doubt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #56 October 6, 2006 If you cream in at 120 is it a painless death? The guys who know for sure aren't talking. Why do you want to jump? For the majority of tandems it is accomplish a goal or they simply fell into a mob (peer pressure) mentality with a group of friends who said, "Let's jump!" You faced your fear of jumping or taking high risk -- why do you want to do another? For the small minority that continue to jump it is usually to redefine who they are. The initial fear of I may die doing this is replaced with I may screw up this jump with my fellow jumpers. They are becoming part of a new community. All skydivers take risks, but we take what we believe are calculated risk. We push envelopes every day. We literally live on the edge. If this doesn't float your boat you probably won't keep doing this. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kkeenan 14 #57 October 6, 2006 Quote If you keep thinking about your gonna end up willing it upon yourself. I don't think that's true. There are folks who are all over the "Black Death" thing, and seem to live forever - then there are those who are happy smiling people and who get whacked right out of thin air. Knowing that you can have a horrendously bad accident at any time in this sport tends to keep many people focused and safe. It's all part of the package. If you want to enjoy the Blue Skies, you have to live with the Black Death. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b_dog 0 #58 October 6, 2006 I didn't mean to appear that I was focusing on the potential for dying. That was the issue of the post but it's not what I dwell on when I drive to the DZ. Anyone entering the sport is going to evaluate what kind of risk there is for a serious accident and that's the phase I was going through. Moreover, I would never say the things in the OP at the DZ to my tandem instructor. I want him to know I trust in his ability and experience. And no, I didn't jump to get over a fear or buy into peer pressure or anything. I did it because it's something I wanted to do since I was a kid. However, my friends going with me might fall under the former. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tomvailco 0 #59 October 6, 2006 Wow you have really thought in detail about the pain you might experience. This is something we do for FUN although it is dangerous. I doubt any skydiver jumps out and is thinking damn this is gonna hurt if I hit in a downplane, and survive to feel the pain. Maybe if the skydiver is in a downplane, then they might be thinking "oh sh*t this is gonna hurt" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tomvailco 0 #60 October 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteStrangely, I'm more freaked out about safety issues this time than I was for the first jump. It doesn't help that there is a fatality database at this forum listing the recent deaths in the sport. Strangely, I'm more freaked out about Bakersfield than I was a few minutes ago. A baby died of being shaken too hard. Another kid was beat to death. A 55 year old lady was killed in a hit-and-run. A semi hit a car on Highway 223; one person died and another person was seriously injured. Several elderly people died of old age, illnesses, etc. It doesn't help that the Bakersfield Californian newspaper lists all the recent deaths in the area. I'm afraid of tuna. I ate a bad piece of tuna one time and got food poisoning. Talk about pain, that was 12 hours of hell, I looked like a raisen when I got done Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrGuy 0 #61 October 8, 2006 The only time I ever thought of "actual" pain on a jump was a second before I actually "FELT" the pain! lol Up until that point I thought things were pretty hunky dorry. A few seconds before exit I still have some door fear...but thats different. Thats a completely irrational thing in my mind that I just ignore. It's a dangerous sport that is too unreal in its coolness to not pursue once you've been there. So the idea of bouncing is just like a fear of getting into an auto accident....it's pretty remote, but if you think about it too much you'll be taking the bus to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bozo 0 #62 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Not long huh ? Its been ten years for me. I overdid it today and am in exquisite pain now. Dieing isnt the bad part of a bounce...the surviving is. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #63 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Yes...and no, brother Twardo.It's just the opposite if you survive. I landed-- -- a 26 ft lopo reserve in streamer mode. Didn't feel a thing when I contacted the earth. Now, when I woke up ......OYE ! And it has hurt every day since. (2 weeks will be twenty years) When I think back on twenty years of pain, and wonder if it was worth the six years of jumping I got in..........yep...without a doubt. I'm still trying to convince myself that shattering my heal in Moab was worth it. No excuses. My fault. Did get 4 E jumps though. Old guys like me heal slow and never completely. Yep, it was worth it. Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites highspeeddirt 0 #64 October 8, 2006 QUICK? that all depends... years ago i lost 3 friends jumping.2 died in a midair collision at opening time, one of whom was knocked unconcious(no aad) and remained entangled in the other guy's main.she never saw death coming .the jumper whose main was deployed however realized the situation and deployed his reserve without cutting away (which was VERY unlike him)speculation is he knew the other jumper was in his canopy and tried to save them both by staying attached to the main and hoping his reserve would clear the mess, which it did not.they impacted pretty much at terminal in a recently plowed field.when we reached them, some 15 minutes later(we had trouble locating them)he was still breathing .in this case it went both ways , fast and painless(relatively speaking )for the first jumper, and long and drawn out for the second. in a second fatality some 3 months later,we had a guy who was epileptic (and no one knew it) apparently had a seizure in free fall and went in without pulling anything(no aad).he went thru the roof of an industrial building .as he passed thru, he was decapitated by a structural roof truss,so i would assume his death was quick and painless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #65 October 8, 2006 The 1 out of a 1000 statistic is for death. The only thing worse than dying is almost dying. I say that in total seriousness. And, no, it isn't always quick. Hours or days sometimes. Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genitor 0 #66 October 8, 2006 Quote I doubt any skydiver jumps out and is thinking damn this is gonna hurt if I hit in a downplane, and survive to feel the pain. I think about that sort of thing all the time. That's usually followed by trying to figure out how to stay out of those situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fallin 0 #67 October 9, 2006 You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Awesome! I couldnt agree more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyingJarhead 0 #68 October 9, 2006 ive got and idea .. if saftey is your priority why not invest in a TRIDEM system, instead of 2 shots, you get 3! ;D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b_dog 0 #69 October 9, 2006 Quote You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy Anyway, yes, I would prefer your #1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #70 October 9, 2006 Its also a global risk you're talking about, not strictly a personal risk. Your figure of 1:1000 is way out - as someone posted earlier I'd guess it's more like 1:100,000. Sure, its more likey to kill you than 10 pin bowling, but you're also more likely to die on the way to the DZ than you are whilst you're there. A guy I work with has over 4000 jumps and no reserve rides - and he's jumping a 67sq/ft canopy. He also said the regular mates he's jumped with for years have all got over 2000 jumps each - and none of THEM have reserve rides. I guess my point is the sport is as safeas you make it. Sure, you can do everything right and still die - but get everything right and the odd's are greatly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #71 October 9, 2006 fuck dying with a smile on my face. I wanna go mid orgasm, and it's more of a face"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #72 October 9, 2006 I always thought being afraid of death and not wanting to die is what drove safety. So every S&TA should not be jumping because they are afraid of dying in the sport?"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #73 October 9, 2006 You should see the safety approach in the company I work for. If you are seen trying to walk down the staors without holding a handrail, you are classifed as 'doing an unsafe act'. Someone will 'have a sfatey conversation' with you and submit a little card recording the observed behaviour (but mercifully not your name). Now in my view, thats taking safety too far, but when you consider that the company got drilled financially for people making claims over tripping down stairs, you suddenly see the motivation. Oh Im a cynic ... RE AAD's - what happens if you are on your back when one fires? Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #74 October 9, 2006 Quote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #75 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. I believe 2 things. One, you can do everything right and still die. Two, there are things that will add to those odds. By risk management, I mean flying within my own limitations and working to skydive safely. You cannot eliminate the risk and somehow make skydiving safe. People sometimes claim to be able to do so. They are wrong. Personally, I am not the best canopy pilot, and I also don't have the depth perception that I had at 20, therefore, I don't swoop. I also use an AAD. One day, I may make an error in judgement. There is no value gained by punishing errors with death. I mitigate the dangerous aspects that I can control, because that is all we can do, try. Anyone who says skydiving can be made safe, has not been in the sport very long. (As to any lack of clarity in my previous post, I take refuge in the "3am post" rule) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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steveorino 7 #56 October 6, 2006 If you cream in at 120 is it a painless death? The guys who know for sure aren't talking. Why do you want to jump? For the majority of tandems it is accomplish a goal or they simply fell into a mob (peer pressure) mentality with a group of friends who said, "Let's jump!" You faced your fear of jumping or taking high risk -- why do you want to do another? For the small minority that continue to jump it is usually to redefine who they are. The initial fear of I may die doing this is replaced with I may screw up this jump with my fellow jumpers. They are becoming part of a new community. All skydivers take risks, but we take what we believe are calculated risk. We push envelopes every day. We literally live on the edge. If this doesn't float your boat you probably won't keep doing this. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #57 October 6, 2006 Quote If you keep thinking about your gonna end up willing it upon yourself. I don't think that's true. There are folks who are all over the "Black Death" thing, and seem to live forever - then there are those who are happy smiling people and who get whacked right out of thin air. Knowing that you can have a horrendously bad accident at any time in this sport tends to keep many people focused and safe. It's all part of the package. If you want to enjoy the Blue Skies, you have to live with the Black Death. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b_dog 0 #58 October 6, 2006 I didn't mean to appear that I was focusing on the potential for dying. That was the issue of the post but it's not what I dwell on when I drive to the DZ. Anyone entering the sport is going to evaluate what kind of risk there is for a serious accident and that's the phase I was going through. Moreover, I would never say the things in the OP at the DZ to my tandem instructor. I want him to know I trust in his ability and experience. And no, I didn't jump to get over a fear or buy into peer pressure or anything. I did it because it's something I wanted to do since I was a kid. However, my friends going with me might fall under the former. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomvailco 0 #59 October 6, 2006 Wow you have really thought in detail about the pain you might experience. This is something we do for FUN although it is dangerous. I doubt any skydiver jumps out and is thinking damn this is gonna hurt if I hit in a downplane, and survive to feel the pain. Maybe if the skydiver is in a downplane, then they might be thinking "oh sh*t this is gonna hurt" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomvailco 0 #60 October 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteStrangely, I'm more freaked out about safety issues this time than I was for the first jump. It doesn't help that there is a fatality database at this forum listing the recent deaths in the sport. Strangely, I'm more freaked out about Bakersfield than I was a few minutes ago. A baby died of being shaken too hard. Another kid was beat to death. A 55 year old lady was killed in a hit-and-run. A semi hit a car on Highway 223; one person died and another person was seriously injured. Several elderly people died of old age, illnesses, etc. It doesn't help that the Bakersfield Californian newspaper lists all the recent deaths in the area. I'm afraid of tuna. I ate a bad piece of tuna one time and got food poisoning. Talk about pain, that was 12 hours of hell, I looked like a raisen when I got done Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrGuy 0 #61 October 8, 2006 The only time I ever thought of "actual" pain on a jump was a second before I actually "FELT" the pain! lol Up until that point I thought things were pretty hunky dorry. A few seconds before exit I still have some door fear...but thats different. Thats a completely irrational thing in my mind that I just ignore. It's a dangerous sport that is too unreal in its coolness to not pursue once you've been there. So the idea of bouncing is just like a fear of getting into an auto accident....it's pretty remote, but if you think about it too much you'll be taking the bus to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bozo 0 #62 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Not long huh ? Its been ten years for me. I overdid it today and am in exquisite pain now. Dieing isnt the bad part of a bounce...the surviving is. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #63 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Yes...and no, brother Twardo.It's just the opposite if you survive. I landed-- -- a 26 ft lopo reserve in streamer mode. Didn't feel a thing when I contacted the earth. Now, when I woke up ......OYE ! And it has hurt every day since. (2 weeks will be twenty years) When I think back on twenty years of pain, and wonder if it was worth the six years of jumping I got in..........yep...without a doubt. I'm still trying to convince myself that shattering my heal in Moab was worth it. No excuses. My fault. Did get 4 E jumps though. Old guys like me heal slow and never completely. Yep, it was worth it. Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites highspeeddirt 0 #64 October 8, 2006 QUICK? that all depends... years ago i lost 3 friends jumping.2 died in a midair collision at opening time, one of whom was knocked unconcious(no aad) and remained entangled in the other guy's main.she never saw death coming .the jumper whose main was deployed however realized the situation and deployed his reserve without cutting away (which was VERY unlike him)speculation is he knew the other jumper was in his canopy and tried to save them both by staying attached to the main and hoping his reserve would clear the mess, which it did not.they impacted pretty much at terminal in a recently plowed field.when we reached them, some 15 minutes later(we had trouble locating them)he was still breathing .in this case it went both ways , fast and painless(relatively speaking )for the first jumper, and long and drawn out for the second. in a second fatality some 3 months later,we had a guy who was epileptic (and no one knew it) apparently had a seizure in free fall and went in without pulling anything(no aad).he went thru the roof of an industrial building .as he passed thru, he was decapitated by a structural roof truss,so i would assume his death was quick and painless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #65 October 8, 2006 The 1 out of a 1000 statistic is for death. The only thing worse than dying is almost dying. I say that in total seriousness. And, no, it isn't always quick. Hours or days sometimes. Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genitor 0 #66 October 8, 2006 Quote I doubt any skydiver jumps out and is thinking damn this is gonna hurt if I hit in a downplane, and survive to feel the pain. I think about that sort of thing all the time. That's usually followed by trying to figure out how to stay out of those situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fallin 0 #67 October 9, 2006 You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Awesome! I couldnt agree more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyingJarhead 0 #68 October 9, 2006 ive got and idea .. if saftey is your priority why not invest in a TRIDEM system, instead of 2 shots, you get 3! ;D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b_dog 0 #69 October 9, 2006 Quote You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy Anyway, yes, I would prefer your #1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #70 October 9, 2006 Its also a global risk you're talking about, not strictly a personal risk. Your figure of 1:1000 is way out - as someone posted earlier I'd guess it's more like 1:100,000. Sure, its more likey to kill you than 10 pin bowling, but you're also more likely to die on the way to the DZ than you are whilst you're there. A guy I work with has over 4000 jumps and no reserve rides - and he's jumping a 67sq/ft canopy. He also said the regular mates he's jumped with for years have all got over 2000 jumps each - and none of THEM have reserve rides. I guess my point is the sport is as safeas you make it. Sure, you can do everything right and still die - but get everything right and the odd's are greatly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #71 October 9, 2006 fuck dying with a smile on my face. I wanna go mid orgasm, and it's more of a face"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #72 October 9, 2006 I always thought being afraid of death and not wanting to die is what drove safety. So every S&TA should not be jumping because they are afraid of dying in the sport?"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #73 October 9, 2006 You should see the safety approach in the company I work for. If you are seen trying to walk down the staors without holding a handrail, you are classifed as 'doing an unsafe act'. Someone will 'have a sfatey conversation' with you and submit a little card recording the observed behaviour (but mercifully not your name). Now in my view, thats taking safety too far, but when you consider that the company got drilled financially for people making claims over tripping down stairs, you suddenly see the motivation. Oh Im a cynic ... RE AAD's - what happens if you are on your back when one fires? Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #74 October 9, 2006 Quote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #75 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. I believe 2 things. One, you can do everything right and still die. Two, there are things that will add to those odds. By risk management, I mean flying within my own limitations and working to skydive safely. You cannot eliminate the risk and somehow make skydiving safe. People sometimes claim to be able to do so. They are wrong. Personally, I am not the best canopy pilot, and I also don't have the depth perception that I had at 20, therefore, I don't swoop. I also use an AAD. One day, I may make an error in judgement. There is no value gained by punishing errors with death. I mitigate the dangerous aspects that I can control, because that is all we can do, try. Anyone who says skydiving can be made safe, has not been in the sport very long. (As to any lack of clarity in my previous post, I take refuge in the "3am post" rule) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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mrGuy 0 #61 October 8, 2006 The only time I ever thought of "actual" pain on a jump was a second before I actually "FELT" the pain! lol Up until that point I thought things were pretty hunky dorry. A few seconds before exit I still have some door fear...but thats different. Thats a completely irrational thing in my mind that I just ignore. It's a dangerous sport that is too unreal in its coolness to not pursue once you've been there. So the idea of bouncing is just like a fear of getting into an auto accident....it's pretty remote, but if you think about it too much you'll be taking the bus to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #62 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Not long huh ? Its been ten years for me. I overdid it today and am in exquisite pain now. Dieing isnt the bad part of a bounce...the surviving is. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rickjump1 0 #63 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Yes...and no, brother Twardo.It's just the opposite if you survive. I landed-- -- a 26 ft lopo reserve in streamer mode. Didn't feel a thing when I contacted the earth. Now, when I woke up ......OYE ! And it has hurt every day since. (2 weeks will be twenty years) When I think back on twenty years of pain, and wonder if it was worth the six years of jumping I got in..........yep...without a doubt. I'm still trying to convince myself that shattering my heal in Moab was worth it. No excuses. My fault. Did get 4 E jumps though. Old guys like me heal slow and never completely. Yep, it was worth it. Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites highspeeddirt 0 #64 October 8, 2006 QUICK? that all depends... years ago i lost 3 friends jumping.2 died in a midair collision at opening time, one of whom was knocked unconcious(no aad) and remained entangled in the other guy's main.she never saw death coming .the jumper whose main was deployed however realized the situation and deployed his reserve without cutting away (which was VERY unlike him)speculation is he knew the other jumper was in his canopy and tried to save them both by staying attached to the main and hoping his reserve would clear the mess, which it did not.they impacted pretty much at terminal in a recently plowed field.when we reached them, some 15 minutes later(we had trouble locating them)he was still breathing .in this case it went both ways , fast and painless(relatively speaking )for the first jumper, and long and drawn out for the second. in a second fatality some 3 months later,we had a guy who was epileptic (and no one knew it) apparently had a seizure in free fall and went in without pulling anything(no aad).he went thru the roof of an industrial building .as he passed thru, he was decapitated by a structural roof truss,so i would assume his death was quick and painless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #65 October 8, 2006 The 1 out of a 1000 statistic is for death. The only thing worse than dying is almost dying. I say that in total seriousness. And, no, it isn't always quick. Hours or days sometimes. Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genitor 0 #66 October 8, 2006 Quote I doubt any skydiver jumps out and is thinking damn this is gonna hurt if I hit in a downplane, and survive to feel the pain. I think about that sort of thing all the time. That's usually followed by trying to figure out how to stay out of those situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fallin 0 #67 October 9, 2006 You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Awesome! I couldnt agree more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyingJarhead 0 #68 October 9, 2006 ive got and idea .. if saftey is your priority why not invest in a TRIDEM system, instead of 2 shots, you get 3! ;D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b_dog 0 #69 October 9, 2006 Quote You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy Anyway, yes, I would prefer your #1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #70 October 9, 2006 Its also a global risk you're talking about, not strictly a personal risk. Your figure of 1:1000 is way out - as someone posted earlier I'd guess it's more like 1:100,000. Sure, its more likey to kill you than 10 pin bowling, but you're also more likely to die on the way to the DZ than you are whilst you're there. A guy I work with has over 4000 jumps and no reserve rides - and he's jumping a 67sq/ft canopy. He also said the regular mates he's jumped with for years have all got over 2000 jumps each - and none of THEM have reserve rides. I guess my point is the sport is as safeas you make it. Sure, you can do everything right and still die - but get everything right and the odd's are greatly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #71 October 9, 2006 fuck dying with a smile on my face. I wanna go mid orgasm, and it's more of a face"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #72 October 9, 2006 I always thought being afraid of death and not wanting to die is what drove safety. So every S&TA should not be jumping because they are afraid of dying in the sport?"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #73 October 9, 2006 You should see the safety approach in the company I work for. If you are seen trying to walk down the staors without holding a handrail, you are classifed as 'doing an unsafe act'. Someone will 'have a sfatey conversation' with you and submit a little card recording the observed behaviour (but mercifully not your name). Now in my view, thats taking safety too far, but when you consider that the company got drilled financially for people making claims over tripping down stairs, you suddenly see the motivation. Oh Im a cynic ... RE AAD's - what happens if you are on your back when one fires? Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #74 October 9, 2006 Quote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #75 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. I believe 2 things. One, you can do everything right and still die. Two, there are things that will add to those odds. By risk management, I mean flying within my own limitations and working to skydive safely. You cannot eliminate the risk and somehow make skydiving safe. People sometimes claim to be able to do so. They are wrong. Personally, I am not the best canopy pilot, and I also don't have the depth perception that I had at 20, therefore, I don't swoop. I also use an AAD. One day, I may make an error in judgement. There is no value gained by punishing errors with death. I mitigate the dangerous aspects that I can control, because that is all we can do, try. Anyone who says skydiving can be made safe, has not been in the sport very long. (As to any lack of clarity in my previous post, I take refuge in the "3am post" rule) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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rickjump1 0 #63 October 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Nope, it'll hurt really badly. Quote That's right! Won't hurt LONG...but really, REALLY BAD! Yes...and no, brother Twardo.It's just the opposite if you survive. I landed-- -- a 26 ft lopo reserve in streamer mode. Didn't feel a thing when I contacted the earth. Now, when I woke up ......OYE ! And it has hurt every day since. (2 weeks will be twenty years) When I think back on twenty years of pain, and wonder if it was worth the six years of jumping I got in..........yep...without a doubt. I'm still trying to convince myself that shattering my heal in Moab was worth it. No excuses. My fault. Did get 4 E jumps though. Old guys like me heal slow and never completely. Yep, it was worth it. Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites highspeeddirt 0 #64 October 8, 2006 QUICK? that all depends... years ago i lost 3 friends jumping.2 died in a midair collision at opening time, one of whom was knocked unconcious(no aad) and remained entangled in the other guy's main.she never saw death coming .the jumper whose main was deployed however realized the situation and deployed his reserve without cutting away (which was VERY unlike him)speculation is he knew the other jumper was in his canopy and tried to save them both by staying attached to the main and hoping his reserve would clear the mess, which it did not.they impacted pretty much at terminal in a recently plowed field.when we reached them, some 15 minutes later(we had trouble locating them)he was still breathing .in this case it went both ways , fast and painless(relatively speaking )for the first jumper, and long and drawn out for the second. in a second fatality some 3 months later,we had a guy who was epileptic (and no one knew it) apparently had a seizure in free fall and went in without pulling anything(no aad).he went thru the roof of an industrial building .as he passed thru, he was decapitated by a structural roof truss,so i would assume his death was quick and painless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #65 October 8, 2006 The 1 out of a 1000 statistic is for death. The only thing worse than dying is almost dying. I say that in total seriousness. And, no, it isn't always quick. Hours or days sometimes. Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genitor 0 #66 October 8, 2006 Quote I doubt any skydiver jumps out and is thinking damn this is gonna hurt if I hit in a downplane, and survive to feel the pain. I think about that sort of thing all the time. That's usually followed by trying to figure out how to stay out of those situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fallin 0 #67 October 9, 2006 You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Awesome! I couldnt agree more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyingJarhead 0 #68 October 9, 2006 ive got and idea .. if saftey is your priority why not invest in a TRIDEM system, instead of 2 shots, you get 3! ;D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b_dog 0 #69 October 9, 2006 Quote You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy Anyway, yes, I would prefer your #1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RossDagley 0 #70 October 9, 2006 Its also a global risk you're talking about, not strictly a personal risk. Your figure of 1:1000 is way out - as someone posted earlier I'd guess it's more like 1:100,000. Sure, its more likey to kill you than 10 pin bowling, but you're also more likely to die on the way to the DZ than you are whilst you're there. A guy I work with has over 4000 jumps and no reserve rides - and he's jumping a 67sq/ft canopy. He also said the regular mates he's jumped with for years have all got over 2000 jumps each - and none of THEM have reserve rides. I guess my point is the sport is as safeas you make it. Sure, you can do everything right and still die - but get everything right and the odd's are greatly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #71 October 9, 2006 fuck dying with a smile on my face. I wanna go mid orgasm, and it's more of a face"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites udder 0 #72 October 9, 2006 I always thought being afraid of death and not wanting to die is what drove safety. So every S&TA should not be jumping because they are afraid of dying in the sport?"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilatus_p 0 #73 October 9, 2006 You should see the safety approach in the company I work for. If you are seen trying to walk down the staors without holding a handrail, you are classifed as 'doing an unsafe act'. Someone will 'have a sfatey conversation' with you and submit a little card recording the observed behaviour (but mercifully not your name). Now in my view, thats taking safety too far, but when you consider that the company got drilled financially for people making claims over tripping down stairs, you suddenly see the motivation. Oh Im a cynic ... RE AAD's - what happens if you are on your back when one fires? Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #74 October 9, 2006 Quote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #75 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. I believe 2 things. One, you can do everything right and still die. Two, there are things that will add to those odds. By risk management, I mean flying within my own limitations and working to skydive safely. You cannot eliminate the risk and somehow make skydiving safe. People sometimes claim to be able to do so. They are wrong. Personally, I am not the best canopy pilot, and I also don't have the depth perception that I had at 20, therefore, I don't swoop. I also use an AAD. One day, I may make an error in judgement. There is no value gained by punishing errors with death. I mitigate the dangerous aspects that I can control, because that is all we can do, try. Anyone who says skydiving can be made safe, has not been in the sport very long. (As to any lack of clarity in my previous post, I take refuge in the "3am post" rule) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
highspeeddirt 0 #64 October 8, 2006 QUICK? that all depends... years ago i lost 3 friends jumping.2 died in a midair collision at opening time, one of whom was knocked unconcious(no aad) and remained entangled in the other guy's main.she never saw death coming .the jumper whose main was deployed however realized the situation and deployed his reserve without cutting away (which was VERY unlike him)speculation is he knew the other jumper was in his canopy and tried to save them both by staying attached to the main and hoping his reserve would clear the mess, which it did not.they impacted pretty much at terminal in a recently plowed field.when we reached them, some 15 minutes later(we had trouble locating them)he was still breathing .in this case it went both ways , fast and painless(relatively speaking )for the first jumper, and long and drawn out for the second. in a second fatality some 3 months later,we had a guy who was epileptic (and no one knew it) apparently had a seizure in free fall and went in without pulling anything(no aad).he went thru the roof of an industrial building .as he passed thru, he was decapitated by a structural roof truss,so i would assume his death was quick and painless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #65 October 8, 2006 The 1 out of a 1000 statistic is for death. The only thing worse than dying is almost dying. I say that in total seriousness. And, no, it isn't always quick. Hours or days sometimes. Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genitor 0 #66 October 8, 2006 Quote I doubt any skydiver jumps out and is thinking damn this is gonna hurt if I hit in a downplane, and survive to feel the pain. I think about that sort of thing all the time. That's usually followed by trying to figure out how to stay out of those situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallin 0 #67 October 9, 2006 You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Awesome! I couldnt agree more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingJarhead 0 #68 October 9, 2006 ive got and idea .. if saftey is your priority why not invest in a TRIDEM system, instead of 2 shots, you get 3! ;D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b_dog 0 #69 October 9, 2006 Quote You have two choices as I see it: 1) Live life to the fullest!! you get only get one turn on the planet (some believe otherwise). Enjoy the ride and live life to the fullest. Yes death may find you along the journey, but you will have a smile when that time arrives. 2) Lock yourself in a closet and patiently wait for death to arrive, it will eventually and how much enjoyment will that be? Read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy Anyway, yes, I would prefer your #1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #70 October 9, 2006 Its also a global risk you're talking about, not strictly a personal risk. Your figure of 1:1000 is way out - as someone posted earlier I'd guess it's more like 1:100,000. Sure, its more likey to kill you than 10 pin bowling, but you're also more likely to die on the way to the DZ than you are whilst you're there. A guy I work with has over 4000 jumps and no reserve rides - and he's jumping a 67sq/ft canopy. He also said the regular mates he's jumped with for years have all got over 2000 jumps each - and none of THEM have reserve rides. I guess my point is the sport is as safeas you make it. Sure, you can do everything right and still die - but get everything right and the odd's are greatly reduced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
udder 0 #71 October 9, 2006 fuck dying with a smile on my face. I wanna go mid orgasm, and it's more of a face"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
udder 0 #72 October 9, 2006 I always thought being afraid of death and not wanting to die is what drove safety. So every S&TA should not be jumping because they are afraid of dying in the sport?"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilatus_p 0 #73 October 9, 2006 You should see the safety approach in the company I work for. If you are seen trying to walk down the staors without holding a handrail, you are classifed as 'doing an unsafe act'. Someone will 'have a sfatey conversation' with you and submit a little card recording the observed behaviour (but mercifully not your name). Now in my view, thats taking safety too far, but when you consider that the company got drilled financially for people making claims over tripping down stairs, you suddenly see the motivation. Oh Im a cynic ... RE AAD's - what happens if you are on your back when one fires? Rosshttp://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #74 October 9, 2006 Quote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #75 October 9, 2006 QuoteQuote Skydiver are "risk managers". They believe that it is the "others" who die. They believe that their skill or caution that will curve the odds in their favor. It is not true. Hmmm, so I should just ditch my AAD and start hook turning through traffic? I'll stop giving any gap to the group ahead of me and looking for others as I track away. I know you're saying no one is bounce proof, but really now, no matter what you do the risks are equal? That's not the clear insights for which you are so well known. I believe 2 things. One, you can do everything right and still die. Two, there are things that will add to those odds. By risk management, I mean flying within my own limitations and working to skydive safely. You cannot eliminate the risk and somehow make skydiving safe. People sometimes claim to be able to do so. They are wrong. Personally, I am not the best canopy pilot, and I also don't have the depth perception that I had at 20, therefore, I don't swoop. I also use an AAD. One day, I may make an error in judgement. There is no value gained by punishing errors with death. I mitigate the dangerous aspects that I can control, because that is all we can do, try. Anyone who says skydiving can be made safe, has not been in the sport very long. (As to any lack of clarity in my previous post, I take refuge in the "3am post" rule) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
