repacks every three months

[bigway 4]

i understand that in the states you must have reserve air and checks every three months. In new zealand we only have to have them every 6 months. As of this our riggers can not make a living from this. In the states do you think you have these checks of course for safety but do you think it is also a way for your riggers to make a living at the busy dz's. I am only wondering what you all think. I am not rubbishing your ways. I think it is a very good thing to always keep your gear well looked after but also think it must be quite expensive. Some people...i.e. workers on dz's would think it is worth it as they are doing so many jumps but what about the people who jump once or twice a week. This must be a huge cost for them. We in new zealand have not had a fatality in years, i think only 2 in 8 years, so the six months seems to be working.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[hookitt 1]

You're close, it's 4 months. 120 days rather than 180. Extending the repack cycle has been in debate for many years.

Personally, I don't think it would put professional riggers out of business.

[sid 1]

Quote

You're close, it's 4 months. 120 days rather than 180. Extending the repack cycle has been in debate for many years.

Personally, I don't think it would put professional riggers out of business.

I agree, it might make us actually charge what the service is worth.......

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[bigway 4]

we only have about 400 skydivers in new zealand...if that. so our riggers have other jobs and also do glider rigs. But you may know that one of our dz's holds the world record for commercial tandems in one day. Something like 140.
So this dz ..like most of our dz's are doing around 80-120 tandems a day. Ok so these tandem rigs only need to be aired and checked once every 6 months. I belive these rigs should be checked once a month because of the high volumes of jumps they are doing. this here would give riggers full time work. So i guess what i am saying is that i think tandems and sport rigs and comercial camera rigs should have different times for repacks. i.e. tandems once a month camera rigs every three months and sport rigs as they are every 6 months or maybe every 4 months.. we charge about 25u.s. dollars(50nzdollars) for a repack.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Chrisky 0]

The safety factor of the repack duration is how bad the reserve settles. The number of jumps on the main during that time doesn't mean too much. It simply raises the likelyhood of a main mal and ensueing reserve repack. Shortening repack cycles just to pay a riggers living doesn't make sense, you could just as well raise the repack price. But how many people would then strive to get a riggers ticket in order to be allowed doing their own repacks, as the course for the ticket would pay off soon?
The repack cycle in germany is 180 days, and by law (although nobody does it) a licensed sport jumper is allowed to do his own reserve pack.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[newsstand 0]

There is no way in the world the repack cycle was set to provide riggers with income. Someone somewhere decided that is how often they should be checked for safety reasons and that is the number they came up with. The bureaucrats don't give a darn about riggers income.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[wmw999 2,446]

In fact, the repack cycle in the US was 60 days until about 25 years ago; it was a holdover from when silk parachutes were around, and they could deteriorate as a fabric a whole lot faster.

There was some talk about lost wages by riggers, but not a whole lot. Folks were thrilled. I have no idea why they didn't try for 6 months then.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bigway 4]

i am not soley saying it was set to provide riggers with an income. I think they could have pushed for it to be as often as it is but that is not what i am trying to ask here.
we do it here in new zealand every 6 months, this proven to work as we have only 2 fatalities in 8 years!! the states do it every 4 months so i am now told. Why do they do it every 4 months?
nz has the record for tandem skydives at any commercial drop zone. why when our country is known as a place to do a skydive or a bunjee jump do we do it only every 6 months when you guys in the states do it every 4 months. I think that our tandem rigs get used just as much as the states if not more. and the whole thing about the riggers income is me saying that if we did it every 4 months our few riggers would be able to live from skydiving like all the rest of us that do it as a proffession.
I also suggest that on the flip side if you the states was to change from 4 months to 6 months there would be a big up roar from all the riggers because at the bust dropzones their incomes would drop.
I know it is primarily a safety reason but it is the skydivers that make the safety reasons that are in place. we do it every 6 months and most guys in the industry are doing 1000+ jumps a year. why do the states do a mandatory re pack every 4 months?
and what the hell is up with you guys in deutchland being able to pack your own reserve when you have an a locense.?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[AndyMan 7]

Quote

I agree, it might make us actually charge what the service is worth.......

I don't think there's any reason to think a longerrepack cycle will increase prices.

Price is usually the intersection between supply and demand. If demand goes up, prices go up. If supply goes up, prices go down.

Expanding the repack cycle will in effect reduce demand. Reducing demand almost always results in lower prices.

Riggers hard pressed to find business will be tempted to cut their prices. It's very dificult to raise prices while starving for work...

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

In fact, the repack cycle in the US was 60 days until about 25 years ago; it was a holdover from when silk parachutes were around, and they could deteriorate as a fabric a whole lot faster.

The re-pack cycle still is 60 days for a rig that has and portion of it made out of natural fiber/fabric.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[darkwing 5]

It is interesting to me that many people seem to think riggers want short repack cycles so they can make money. I have been rigging for 25+ years, and have known many riggers. I'm pretty sure that I have never met a rigger that wanted short repack cycles so they could make more money. Nor did I ever meet one who raised his rates when the cycle got longer. While there may be riggers who feel different, I bet they are in the minority.

In short, even when I was an active rigger, I wanted longer cycles, and my fee was unrelated to the repack cycle length. I'd be interested in hearing from riggers (not from people who think they know how riggers feel about this).

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[riggerrob 643]

Strong Enterprises insists that their tandem gear receive an external inspection every 25 jumps. This inspection includes looking at all visible parts of the harness/container and crawling inside all the cells of the main canopy. In other words, Strong Enterprises insists on tandem operators inspecting all the high wear items every 25 jumps.
The old repack cycle was 30 days on silk parachutes. USPA lobbied the FAA to change the repack cycle to 60 days, and the current 120 days.
Canada and several European countries have gone to 180 day repack cycles. Since few Canadians are tough enough to jump in the snow, this means that most Canadian skydivers only get their reserves repacked once a year, in the springtime.
Just before CSPA changed its repack cycle, the head of the TT&SC asked me my opinion. I replied "I will make more money off major repairs."

As for changing the repack cycle in the USA, don't hold your breath. The FAA does not want to be bothered because changing a Federal Air Regulation is like mating elephants. It occurs at high levels with plenty of roaring and screeching and you have to wait tow years for results. Since Al Queda can do more damage in one hour than skydivers can do in a decade, the FAA does not want to be bothered.

Riggers' wages are even lower on the FAA list of priorities.

As for German skydivers being allowed to repack their own reserves, this is a hang-over from the days when everyone jumped round mains and round reserves packed into military surplus containers. In the last 30 years, main canopy packing methods have diverged so much that few of them are relevant to packing reserves anymore.

[bigway 4]

thank you riggerrob....i have been much anticipating your response to this and yet again you have made all very clear and very detailed. thank you for your insight.......everyone.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Jimbo 0]

Quote

But you may know that one of our dz's holds the world record for commercial tandems in one day. Something like 140.

That's hardly a world record.

I don't believe that extending the repack to 180 days would put any full time rigger out of business.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[bigway 4]

thats 140 jumps on a normal buissness day with all 140 tandem jumps from 10k-16k. you show me a place that has done more that is not just hop n pops.
taupo tandems was the dropzone and that has been recognised for being the buisiest commercial dropzone in the world. they do at least a minmum of 100 tandems a day on a full good weather day. i am not from this dropzone and have never jumped there but you can always look it up or prove me wrong.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[meltdown 0]

The bureaucrats don't give a darn about riggers income.
____________________________________________
Nor should they. Although, sometimes it seems like the tax code was set up to employ accountants

[PhreeZone 20]

SDC did at least that a few times both Saturday and Sunday a few summers ago (I thought they did 200+ in one day in fact all from 13k). Crosskeys does 100+, the Ranch had 120 scheduled plus walk ups last Saturday. 140 tandems is busy, but its not a world record.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[bigway 4]

alright, maybe i stand correct. this dz is very busy, they charge 100 us dollars to 12,000ft. people come from all over the world for this place but anyway i was just trying to talk about repacks. cheers all

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Jimbo 0]

Gotta love thread creep. Anyhow . . .

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=615824#615824

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[hookitt 1]

One question regarding the 2 fatalities in 8 years. How were they caused?

[bigway 4]

the last was a student on his 8th jump he thought he was pretty good and tried to do a stupid hook turn on a student rig/canopy.
the other one was another student, i cant remember what happened but it closed a drop zone for many years. we have had our incidents over here but only a couple that were serious enough for hospital.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Jimbo 0]

Quote

We in new zealand have not had a fatality in years, i think only 2 in 8 years, so the six months seems to be working.

Nonsense.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[bigway 4]

what is nonsense?
the only 2 fatalities?
or the it seems to be working?
you seem to disagree with everything i write.
i am curious if you have bothered to look anything up about skydiving in new zealand?
or do you just get off on disagreeing?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Jimbo 0]

Quote

what is nonsense?
the only 2 fatalities?
or the it seems to be working?

That the six month repack cycle has anything to do with the number of fatalities at your dropzone. You may as well have said that eating breakfast seems to be working to keep your fatalities down.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[bigway 4]

jim, one other thing, when i was talking about a record of the most tandems i was not reffering to 30 tandem masters attempting to break a world record by doing 8 jumps each. i was however talking about a COMMERCIAL dropzone on a normal working day doing 140 jumps from customers who have booked tandem skydives. not a big event but a normal day at the dz. this like 7 tandem master doing 20 jumps each in a day with no media or official ladedaded.
another comment you made about reserve packs not affecting fatalities well if we have only had 2 fatalities in 8 years or so i would say our repacks do work as all the other people that have had mals obviously used their reserve to survive. Hence their reserve repacks must have saved their lives. I am pretty sure, well not that i know of anyway but pretty certain that they did not throw up their breakfast thinking it could act as a reserve parachute. so this makes me wonder what is safer?
a/ a regular 6 month repack/inspection or..
b/ eating your breakfast in the morning.
i have done by the sounds of it the same amount of jumps as yourself. i have not eaten breakfast in many years but have had 7 repacks on my rigs and 2 malfunctions. the repack option seems to work for me.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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