upndownshop 0 #1 August 23, 2006 So if you are unconscious under your reserve during landing...do you think you will live through it???? Assuming that you dont hit any objects on landing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 August 23, 2006 TSO C23D requires that a reserve canopy not exceed 24 FPS decent rate and the total velocity not exceed 36 FPS at maximum operating weight in the post-deployment configuration brakes set). How hard of a landing is that? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #3 August 23, 2006 Quote36 FPS at maximum operating weight ............How hard of a landing is that? Under an overloaded reserve you might be looking 40 fps. or more. That is around 27 to say 30 mph. That is damn hard even if the first thing you his is horizontal ground. If it is an vertical obstacle you will be in deep do do.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #4 August 23, 2006 QuoteTSO C23D requires that a reserve canopy not exceed 24 FPS decent rate and the total velocity not exceed 36 FPS at maximum operating weight in the post-deployment configuration brakes set). How hard of a landing is that? Derek Quote at maximum operating weight in the post-deployment configuration brakes set). yep and that is under what loading???? How many of us stay within the mfr requirements??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #5 August 23, 2006 If I had been unconscious on my Cypres save, I am quite sure I would have survived (unless my head struck something hard, had to ditch my helmet), provided the plane wasn't coming in for landing because the reserve would have been flying across the runway at low altitude.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #6 August 23, 2006 QuoteTSO C23D requires that a reserve canopy not exceed 24 FPS decent rate and the total velocity not exceed 36 FPS at maximum operating weight in the post-deployment configuration brakes set). max weight, or max recommended (1.3 for smart)? Aerodyne has 220lb max for the 99-135 - wouldn't a 2.0 WL be substantially faster than 36fps? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merkur 1 #7 August 23, 2006 If you stay below the recommended weight-limits -- yes. Happened in Germany some years ago. M.vSCR No.94 Don't dream your life - live your dream! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breadhead 0 #8 August 23, 2006 Quote24 FPS decent rate ... how hard of a landing is that? 24 fps is equivalent to falling from 9 ft ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #9 August 23, 2006 QuoteTSO C23D requires that a reserve canopy not exceed 24 FPS decent rate and the total velocity not exceed 36 FPS at maximum operating weight in the post-deployment configuration brakes set). How hard of a landing is that? Derek Does that include the speed generated by a weight shift turm if the unconcious jumper is asymetrical in the harness? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travman 6 #10 August 23, 2006 The latest issue of Australian Skydiver Magazine has a story about a guy who collided with another jumper on a wingsuit jump which knocked him out and sent him into a steep dive. His cypres fired and the force of the opening fractured his C2 to 6 vertebraes and split the body of his C7 (spinal cord OK!!!). His reserve stayed on windline and he landed softly. He is taking a year off jumping to heal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #11 August 23, 2006 Quote24 fps is equivalent to falling from 9 ft ... At 24 fps you are traveling at 16 mph. That is faster than you can run.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #12 August 23, 2006 QuoteHis reserve stayed on windline and he landed softly. He is taking a year off jumping to heal. He's a mate and no he did NOT land softly, but he did land soft enough, Andre is still with us You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodpecker 0 #13 August 23, 2006 Had this happen in texel two years ago. Jumper with no helmet on smashed into the door while exiting and was rendered unconscious. Cypress fired, all he did was roll an ankle on landing. Went to hospital, no breaks, just a bad sprain.SONIC WOODY #146 There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,346 #14 August 23, 2006 Too many variables for a "Yes" or "No." What I do know is; I have very little chance if I don't have an AAD.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 August 23, 2006 Where I jump in the midwest, literally smack in the middle of the largest cornfields you could possibly imagine...? Yup. Landing would likely either be soft mud in the spring or tall corn in the summer. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #16 August 23, 2006 Quotemax weight, or max recommended (1.3 for smart)? Aerodyne has 220lb max for the 99-135 - wouldn't a 2.0 WL be substantially faster than 36fps? Max weight., so for a 99, that would be 220 pounds suspended weight. It doesn't account for any harness turns, which may or may not happen. I brought it up since it is a major factor in whether or not you get hurt, how fast you would be going under the reserve. 24 FPS is 16.364 mph 36 FPS is 24.545 mph If you are under the max TSO wweight (as I read AS8015b, someone correct e if I am wrong), and not inducing any harness turns, you should be below these numbers. Altitude, harness turns, etc will increase your speed though. I am not trying to answer the question, just make it easier to answer. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #17 August 23, 2006 QuoteSo if you are unconscious under your reserve during landing...do you think you will live through it???? Assuming that you dont hit any objects on landing... I know someone who not only lived but walked away...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #18 August 23, 2006 Not sure. I might. I might not. I know that I'm within the TSO limits for my reserve, but shit happens and it could be my time.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #19 August 23, 2006 I like my odds with the AAD. Personaly know 2 sleepers that had the AAD save them. One hurt her back, the other cut her chin pretty good....but both are alive and jumping (that I know of). I see it like a seat belt.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #20 August 23, 2006 No idea. Having an AAD increases my chances. Weight shift in harness due to being unconscious will make the canopy turn. Under my main I can swoop using only harness turns. My reserve will be moer docile, but whether it is docile enough I don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #21 August 23, 2006 Quote 24 fps is equivalent to falling from 9 ft ... When I was in college, a student died after falling off one step, having hit the base of his skull when he landed. That said, around here it's mostly tilled cornfields and beanfields, I think you'd do reasonably well, if you didn't end up face down and suffocate in the dirt/mud.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #22 August 23, 2006 I think the main point here is this: If you pick your reserve with more consideration to its packed volume i.e. "Is it properly small and cool", then you may be jeapordizing your safety. If you land unconscious under a small, overloaded reserve, you have a greater chance of getting seriously injured or killed. Sure, it's possible for a skilled canopy pilot to pull off a landing under a reserve at a wingloading of 1.9. But, if you're hanging limp in the harness with visions of sugarplums dancing in your head when you cream into a Wal-Mart parking lot, then none of that skill will help, and you may never wake up. It's common knowledge that many folks jump reserves that are way over the wingloading that would be considered safe in the event of this scenario. But this is a sport of individual choices and risk assessments. I make my equipment choices and you make yours. No problems. Kevin_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #23 August 23, 2006 QuoteSo if you are unconscious under your reserve during landing...do you think you will live through it???? Assuming that you dont hit any objects on landing... This one of the reasons I have 99 sq. ft. mains with 218 sq. ft. reserves. Even if I am conscious under reserve, there is a chance that I went to silver because of a broken collarbone or something similar (breaking a collarbone in a blown exit or good old fashioned funnel is easy). If I can't steer or flare properly, I want a nylon overcast above me. Another consideration is that a CYPRES is going to have me open at 750 some-odd feet. Even if I can steer and flare, there is a good chance that I am going to be somewhere that does not have the requisite runway area for landing any kind of HP canopy. Being under something I can sink into someone's back yard, or land in trees without getting killed, is a good thing. Little reserves are better than a PLF at terminal, but there are circumstances under which the results are about the same. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #24 August 23, 2006 I would. I jump a Saber 2 230 and a PD 253 reserve. Loaded at a little over 1 to 1 So it would hurt and most likely I would be broken but alive...............I hope.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apollard24 0 #25 August 23, 2006 winsor- my SO does the same thing, he flies a Vengeance 120 main and has a 175 reserve. He wanted a larger reserve just incase he was hurt under a reserve. I would hope that I would survive my reserve ride. Im not loading quiet 1:1 on my 135 reserve. Can only hope for the bestBreathe out so I can breathe you in... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
