Attention Skydivers: Jumping a BASE rig from aircraft in the US is not just illegal, but stupid

[Thanatos340 1]

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Intriguing run of comments. Sad, though, that most of the pro-BASE jump replies completely miss the boat. My thoughts...

1) Gary is 100% correct. It is illegal. Period. Move on.

2) One should not try to rationalize, excuse, or condone the attempted jump at WFFC, regardless of safety, quality of gear, experience of the jumper, or personal thoughts on skydiving, base jumping, etc. Again, see number one.

3) Had the unthinkable happened, or even a botched landing, and the jumper injured, the entire skydiving community would suffer, including the possiblity of closing the WFFC. The pilot could have lost his license. What would happen to the base community ? Not a thing. When one has nothing to lose, ones self-protective "Base is safer than pond swooping" argument rings hollow.

4) In the absence of people like Gary, our sport would be controlled by others, a true disaster.

5) Finally, his comments to Dixie, a familiar, fair, and skydiver oriented official from the FAA was not (in any way) turning in a jumper. It was simply asking someone with a title to repremand someone for attempting to peform an illegal, and yes, very stupid, stunt.

I enjoy skydiving. I enjoy Base jumping. I am active in both. I do however, realize that my behavior, activities, and jumps - even base jumps, can have repercussions that extend beyond my desire for a thrill.

Reasonable, logical and accurate posts like you just made are not allowed on here. This totally counter productive a good argument. Please go back and edit your post to include more conjecture, wild accusations, unsubstantiated claims, personal attacks, inconsistent facts and for gods sake.. Please get rid of the logical and rational parts so that this post can conform to the rest of this thread.

[Richards 0]

I do not know jack about base jumping and base rigs. For my own knowledge could you please enlighten me as to how this presents a danger? I am not disagreeing since I do not know and I trust in the judgement of those of you who enforce the rules of safety. I just want it explained for my own knowledge. Sorry if this question is the mother of all dumb questions. I suspect it has something to do with the speed of opening but I am not sure.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[rehmwa 2]

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5) Finally, his comments to Dixie, a familiar, fair, and skydiver oriented official from the FAA was not (in any way) turning in a jumper. It was simply asking someone with a title to repremand someone for attempting to peform an illegal, and yes, very stupid, stunt.

Stop that, it isn't an insult or pissing match. Fair assessment doesn't belong here.

Short is, if Peek went to the pilot - most would be mad he 'ratted' to the pilot. If Peek went to the DZ management, most would be mad he 'ratted' to the DZ management. And, Frankly, I think if Peek had only talked to the guy and no one else, people would still be bitching about how he should leave the guy alone.

I'm not sure why these childish responses equate having a friend with a title (who happens to be in the FAA) speak to someone not in their jurisdiction is the equivalent to tattling to the principle. Frankly, I think it likely help teach a lesson to an obviously 'junior' jumper that was making poor choices affecting a jump pilot.

Nice job Peek, frankly, if I was friends with the pilot, that's who I'd have personally gone to instead of Dixie. I'd have asked him to ream out the jumper for putting his license at risk. But, I suspect you had a better personal relationship with the FAA rep to get the same lesson taught.

Edit: Look, there's FAA reps that I wouldn't tell a single thing to. But there's others that understand us and I have no issue with having them know what's going on. The job doesn't automatically = 'asshole'. It depends on the individual rep and how mature they are about dealing with skydiving. Nobody here has even asked about "Dixie"'s outlook and friendliness to skydiving. This person may be a friend of skydivers. This paranoid attitude, knee jerking against any kind of authority should go away after a person's 16th birthday.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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the title - illegal, in this country yes. stupid? hardly. maybe to people who are lacking the knowledge about base. most of the people shouting 'party foul' are people that don't base jump.

perhaps they are lacking in base knowledge but this was a skydiving event. If a skydiver turns up at a base event with a skydiving rig you think he would be allowed to jump.

mutual respect is needed by both sides here. The fact the guy tried it on and got caught doesn't, to me show that respect.

In the Uk it is also Illegal to jump a base rig from a aircraft.

Well said,You know damn good and well if I showed up at Bridge Day with my trusty 145 Alpha they would not let me jump.Why you ask?Cause they don't want a black mark on their event and sport.


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[peek 21]

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But, I suspect you had a better personal relationship with the FAA rep to get the same lesson taught.

And I had a small window of opportunity in which to point out this mistake to the jumper (in a gentle way).

I could have pulled his wristband from his arm I suppose, and looked him up in the database, and made a big deal out of it, but there was a simpler and more effective way, so I chose it.

How many complaints do we all suppose would that have generated?

[980 0]

how about a trusty VX??

from this page

cya

[rehmwa 2]

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How many complaints do we all suppose would that have generated?

Results matter:

1 - Did the jumper get fined? Is that even possible?
2 - Did the pilot get his license revoked?
3 - Did the DZ get in trouble?
4 - Did the widdle jumper get swightly embarassed in front of complete strangers?

What negative consequences happen here? NONE
Positive? A new guy gets a serious education and a tiny bit of a scare.

Of course, there is the infamous "FAA anti-skydiving Co-op" (FAAASCO). FAAASCO is a secret society of FAA inspectors with the sole mission of ending skydiving for all participants. They meet monthly, make up issues, and I believe they have a secret handshake. If Dixie belongs, we are now completely screwed. We'll find out in about 12 days, the next meeting is in 9 days, but it take 2 days to get the minutes issued and one day for Congress to pass a general skydiving ban.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[980 0]

***Having been on an AC with an asshat who wore a BASE rig with 3-rings and a cutaway handle on to a jumpship then sat with his back to the wall so no one could see he had no sport rig on till he jumped out at 600 agl, I really don't think a hot air pilot would really know what he is looking at if the rig looked like the rig asshat had on.***

newsflash - most baserigs have 3-rings these days and a simple tape loop cutaway handle hidden behind the MLW. some have the option of a skydiving style cutaway pillow

Did you not notice the lack of reserve handle?

or was he a real asshat and put a fake one on?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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I believe you can jump non-TSOed gear from an aircraft with an FAA waiver.

Well do you think this guy had a waiver???


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[gravitational 0]

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5) Finally, his comments to Dixie, a familiar, fair, and skydiver oriented official from the FAA was not (in any way) turning in a jumper. It was simply asking someone with a title to repremand someone for attempting to peform an illegal, and yes, very stupid, stunt.

FYI - If not for the efforts of Dixie on the FAA side, no one would have been jumping out of that aircraft that was a tad bit faster than Mullins. Dixie is pro-skydiver and enjoys working with the WFFC and the skydivers. Any reprimand would have been an explanation of all the consequences of the jumpers actions and not much more since the individual missed the load.

Unless you're going to go look for a tower, why bring a BASE rig to a skydiving event anyway? BASE events (in most cases) require BASE gear. Skydiving events require Skydiving gear. I guess I don't get it.

Gary - Kudos for stopping a potential situation that could have affected my ability to skydive.

------
Michael

[base428 1]

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Well do you think this guy had a waiver???

My comment about jumping non-TSOed gear with an FAA waiver was made in reference to the 1997 WFFC low-altitude balloon jumps. Since some people made inaccurate statements like "base is illegal" and "jumping a base rig from an aircraft is illegal", I thought I would provide arguments.

It's comical to see skydivers get all worked up about having BASE gear on a balloon. My BASE rig is far more reliable than a line-twisting elliptical. And as the organizer of a large BASE event, I happily (but nervously) accept skydivers who bring their Wonderhogs and PD 9-cells. But the real issue here is turning the jumper in to the FAA.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[basejumper9 0]

My apologies, when you said in your original post "We need to educate each other and stop doing stupid things." I mistakenly took you to mean BASE jump. Now I see that you meant more BASE from a balloon at the convention. Sorry.

I am curious about the WFFC in 97 when Dennis and Avery had the balloon there for low altitude jumps... does anyone know about that?

“Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down.”
~ Kobi Yamada

[Amanduh 0]

I really like that pic. You rock.







Personal side note to PEEK - Karma is a bitch.

[TomAiello 26]

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...you tresspass, B&E, property damage ECT.

Actually, leaving any visible trace of your presence on the object is considered poor ethics in BASE. I've had to advise a couple of my students who wanted to tag our object with stickers (because they were in the habit of tagging aircraft in that manner) that it just wasn't something we do in BASE.

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...when one of your own bounces you call 911 and run off...

Although that's a perception held by some folks, I've honestly never seen a jumper actually do that, and I know a whole lot of jumpers who never would (myself included). I know of one case within the past year in which multiple jumpers all stayed with a fatality, and all got busted, because it was the right thing to do. Personally, I've been arrested staying with an injured jumper, and I know several other people who have, too.


Please be careful not to stereotype BASE jumpers based on your perceptions from either this forum, or from what, to us, is ancient history.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[marks 0]

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It's comical to see skydivers get all worked up about having BASE gear on a balloon. My BASE rig is far more reliable than a line-twisting elliptical. And as the organizer of a large BASE event, I happily (but nervously) accept skydivers who bring their Wonderhogs and PD 9-cells. But the real issue here is turning the jumper in to the FAA.

this isn't about the safety of your gear
this isn't about how cool you are
this isn't about your right to base jump.
it is about being able to skydive.

your pissed because you feel like your rights have been taken.. maybe they have. but don't you see that a base jump at a skydiving boogie is stupid? especially with the faa there...

amanda. karma is a bitch. and if gary did nothing the potential for something bad happening was high.


you guys need to chill... there is and was no harm done in anyway!

[rehmwa 2]

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But the real issue here is turning the jumper in to the FAA.

"turned in"?
So, how much jail time did the junior jumper serve? How big a fine did he pay? When does he get his rig back?

You're all pissed off because some kid was made slightly uncomfortable by someone in the sport longer than them. This is a form of self policing just as if the local S&TA came over for a little chat.

It's equivalent to having an off duty cop take a punk out for a talk about crime and consequences. Informal, constructive and effective. The kid is nervous, so he listens. Everybody wins.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[HydroGuy 0]

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This is a form of self policing just as if the local S&TA came over for a little chat

From wikipedia:

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Self-policing is the process whereby an organization is asked, or volunteers, to enforce legal, ethical, or safety standards upon itself, rather than have an outside, independent agency impose and enforce those standards.

Apparently many of you are grossly mis-informed as to what self-policing means...so I posted the definition to enlighten you.

Rehmwa, as you can see now that you are aware of what the definition of self-policing is, going to a S&TA would be keeping it within the organization...in this case the organization being the skydiving community.

The FAA is not part of that organization...they are an outside, independent agency.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[droquette 0]

My $.02
Somebody wrote on here that skydiving was all about self regulation.
By going to the FAA you basically went to the teacher and ratted somebody out. Granted he was doing something against the rules... But there are many ways to educate/lecture/reem/.... somebody and going the the FAA ot rat a skydiving brother out is not the way.

blue skies,
dan

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[peek 21]

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It's equivalent to having an off duty cop take a punk out for a talk about crime and consequences. Informal, constructive and effective. The kid is nervous, so he listens. Everybody wins.

You know, I was trying to think of an analogy myself to try to get some people to better understand just what happened, but you have done a wondeful job of it. Thanks.

[peek 21]

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By going to the FAA you basically went to the teacher and ratted somebody out. Granted he was doing something against the rules...

Dan, perhaps the thread has gotten so long that you have not been able to read all of the comments I have made so far.

There was nothing to rat out. He was not doing something against the rules, but was planning to.

Telling someone before they do something wrong is usually better than being punitive after they do it.

[Rambo 0]

I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help = oxymoron.

Rambo

Party On!

[flyangel2 2]

I've read the whole thread and I give you a "good for you."

I'm guessing the people that are on your back because of your actions, don't understand what your job at the WFFC is. They might want to educate them selves. They also don't know that it's a ghost town at that hour of the morning, and not many people around. If you had to track down some one else to talk to the jumper about why a base rig should not be used while jumping from a balloon, the guy could have been long gone and never to be found again.

I'm guessing that the FAA gal just happened to be the closest person around to back up what education you just gave the jumper.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[rehmwa 2]

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The FAA is not part of that organization...they are an outside, independent agency.

What you guys don't get is that, in this context, Dixie wasn't the FAA. Dixie was just a friend that could help hammer home the point.

again, what consequences happened other than some newbie got a lesson he won't forget?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,058]

>It's equivalent to having an off duty cop take a punk
>out for a talk about crime and consequences. Informal, constructive
>and effective. The kid is nervous, so he listens. Everybody wins.

Hmm. I would prefer to talk to the guy myself rather than call a cop - especially if he was another skydiver. If he then continues in his criminal ways, I might then call the cops, but that would be a last ditch thing. I prefer people take care of their own problems by talking to other people directly; seems to work better that way.

[TomAiello 26]

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There is positively no reason that I would be unsafe flying my wingsuit off a terminal wall in Norway with my wingsuit skydiving rig and pulling at a suitable altitude (I have over 1000 wingsuit jumps and over 4500 skydives), but I am sure there are a bunch of twits out there that would try and give me at least this much grief if I did it anyway.

If you ever decide you want to do that, let me know. I'll loan you a good wingsuit-worthy BASE rig, and let you get an extra 1500 feet of usable altitude out of each flight.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com