Stevetaylor 0 #1 August 9, 2006 Geetings and Felicitations! In my long experience (8 jumps), I've had 3 instances of line twists. I assume that my poor stability at deployment (which I'm working on) is most likely the cause. I must say that the first line twist scared the bejesus out of me (I actually touched the cutaway handle before working out the twist), but the last two were (ho-hum) "routine". Besides needing to work on my body position and stability, am I getting into a dangerous area with regards seeing line twists as a mere nusiance? I'd hate to just see them as a silly pain that I have to fix, and not realize a situation where I should cut away. Are there instances (other than HP canopies or spins) wherer line twists are to be regarded as more than a nusiance? (Yes, I did talk to my instructor, who told me not to worry about them). FYI- I'm jumping a Navigator 260, exit weight about 215. Thanks, Steve The definition of insanity is to keep doing things the same way, but then to expect different results. -Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 August 9, 2006 QuoteAre there instances (other than HP canopies or spins) wherer line twists are to be regarded as more than a nusiance? Under most circumstances, they're just a nuisance, at least under larger canopies (as you indicated, HP canopies can make them much more than a nuisance, but since I don't fly one I won't comment on that). At low altitudes (i.e., below your decision altitude) and/or under your reserve, they could very easily become more than a mere nuisance. On deployment, if you don't have adequate separation they can, and have, become more than a nuisance. See this incident for an example. I applaud you for trying to ensure that you don't become complacent about problems on deployment - it's definitely an area where it's easy to get lazy. However, with 8 jumps, I will bet that your stability will continue to improve. Scott Miller wrote a great article for Skydiving magazine on getting better openings that's recently been reprinted here - there's some great info in it."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kefran 0 #3 August 9, 2006 well, if line twists are quite often just annoying (i speak for reasonably large chute here) they could easily be a big problem too so your best guess until you reach enough stability on deployement is to deploy high to be able to de-twist your main. too low means probably that you'll have to cutaway as you may not have the time to kick enough to detwist your lines. personal experience here : once deploying at 5000 i did have my lines twisted from my neck up to the main ... as i was high enough i finally succeeded to detwist the whole stuff but it took me 1900' in the meantime i was looking anxiously at my altimeter, waiting to be at 2500 to cutaway if needed ... this happened to me with my ZPX 185 and was totally my fault ! good question anyway !-------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #4 August 9, 2006 With that size canopy and exit weight, its just a nusiance. Keep working on your body position. I watched my AFF vids from over 5 years ago. WOW! No wonder I had line twists. Relax, focus and listen to your instructors. You'll do fine.Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #5 August 9, 2006 You're probably just turning as you deploy (thereby rotating around the deploying canopy), possibly through asymmetric legs (eg dropped knee) or dropping one shoulder as you pull. You might get some idea of what it is and how to fix it by considering which way you rotate (you're going the other way when you kick out the line twists! ) I bet it's the same each time. Your instructor will debrief you, I'm sure. If it keeps persisting, and it's always in the same direction (either always clockwise or always anticlockwise) your instructor should be able to come up with a strategy to deal with it. All this is perfectly normal - and one of the reasons students like yourself jump big Navigators! Richard PS don't lose heart - I had similar problems when I started but now have a wingsuit coach rating and fly head down (amongst other things...)-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #6 August 9, 2006 Are you jumping static line? I don't know it for a fact, but I have heard that line twists are more common with s/l. I used to get them all the time. Haven't one since I got off s/l. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #7 August 9, 2006 my first (and only so far) cutaway was from linetwists. I had had them several times before, but in this one case I simply couldnt kick them out. And that was on a Sabre 190 loaded at around 1.2:1. I kinda felt like an ass, but hey, I had the problem, I made the call, and I saved my life. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #8 August 10, 2006 If I look up and see line twist - the first thing I am going to do is check my altitude and monitor it carefully while dealing with the situation. Alt awareness is paramount when dealing with a partial that can possible be corrected.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevetaylor 0 #9 August 10, 2006 Quote Are you jumping static line? I don't know it for a fact, but I have heard that line twists are more common with s/l. I used to get them all the time. Haven't one since I got off s/l. Nope, AFF. Never have done a S/L Steve The definition of insanity is to keep doing things the same way, but then to expect different results. -Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevetaylor 0 #10 August 10, 2006 QuoteIf I look up and see line twist - the first thing I am going to do is check my altitude and monitor it carefully while dealing with the situation. Alt awareness is paramount when dealing with a partial that can possible be corrected. I've always been told that I have great altitude awareness. Had a twist again last night , but had deployed high enough (WO @ 5500, deployed by 4800), that I had plenty of altitude. With the big (260) Navigator that I fly, even with twists I lose little altitude more than normale. I had the twist out within 400 feet. Steve The definition of insanity is to keep doing things the same way, but then to expect different results. -Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevetaylor 0 #11 August 10, 2006 QuoteYou're probably just turning as you deploy (thereby rotating around the deploying canopy), possibly through asymmetric legs (eg dropped knee) or dropping one shoulder as you pull. You might get some idea of what it is and how to fix it by considering which way you rotate (you're going the other way when you kick out the line twists! ) I bet it's the same each time. Thanks for the opinion. The twist are in the same direction each time, and each time it happens I'm either turning or starting to flip left side up. I think I have figured out what the problem is; see if my thinking makes sense. When I am ready to deploy, I wave off twice with both hands, then continue with my right hand to the handle. When I get unstable, I think that I'm leaving my left hand in the normal position (i.e. boxman), and not bringing it in towards my head to counter the right hand moving back towards the handle. With the left hand out into the wind, could I be inducing a wee bit of a barrel roll? It seems that when I deploy I always seem to start to flip my left side up and drop my head a bit. Does this make sense for what I'm encountering??? And if so, i guess the fix would be to bring my left hand in towards my head while reaching back with the right, then returning to a normal arch after tossing the chute. Am I going in the right direction with this??? Thanks all, Steve The definition of insanity is to keep doing things the same way, but then to expect different results. -Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #12 August 10, 2006 Your explanation sounds right on to me. Talk and practice on the ground with your instructor and do some practice pulls on the ground and in the air. Maybe in the air try holding your hands in the deploy position for a few seconds to practice and stay stable: right hand near the handle, your left arm in front of you until you feel comfortable in that position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bradley77 0 #13 August 11, 2006 I've had two line twists. The first one was on AFF 3, my first release dive. My second was AFF 7, my final student dive. I tend to bend over when I reach back. My practice pulls seem very good but when it comes to the real pull I mess up sometimes. I was thinking about it this week and thought it might be a good idea if I try to look at my hand that I put out in front of my face in order to keep my head up. My solo dive pull last week was less than stellar and I could feel myself sort of tract down a bit after my pull. But I didn't turn to either side and the canopy opened fine. Man, the first time the line twist occured I looked up to see if the canopy was square and thought to myself, "Oh sh*t, that doesn't look right!!" then about that time the slider came down a bit and I saw the twist. Pulled risers apart and kicked. I remember during ground school my instructor said, "You will get line twists, you will see them!". And I thought to myself, "No I won't cause I'm not going to do anything stupid to get line twists". LOL well I sure did get them. Not the most fun to get but I can take care of them...at leasst if they are simple line twists.Damn, this is fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevetaylor 0 #14 August 11, 2006 QuoteYour explanation sounds right on to me. Talk and practice on the ground with your instructor and do some practice pulls on the ground and in the air. Maybe in the air try holding your hands in the deploy position for a few seconds to practice and stay stable: right hand near the handle, your left arm in front of you until you feel comfortable in that position. Thanks! The idea of holding my deployment position for a few souonds like a great idea...hopefully it'll help me look and feel less like a dying quail. Steve The definition of insanity is to keep doing things the same way, but then to expect different results. -Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eatgrass 0 #15 August 14, 2006 QuoteGeetings and Felicitations! In my long experience (8 jumps), I've had 3 instances of line twists. I assume that my poor stability at deployment (which I'm working on) is most likely the cause. I must say that the first line twist scared the bejesus out of me (I actually touched the cutaway handle before working out the twist), but the last two were (ho-hum) "routine". Besides needing to work on my body position and stability, am I getting into a dangerous area with regards seeing line twists as a mere nusiance? I'd hate to just see them as a silly pain that I have to fix, and not realize a situation where I should cut away. Are there instances (other than HP canopies or spins) wherer line twists are to be regarded as more than a nusiance? (Yes, I did talk to my instructor, who told me not to worry about them). FYI- I'm jumping a Navigator 260, exit weight about 215. Thanks, Steve Fly a solid straight heading or else arch hard and give a good wave off (a byproduct of this beyond warning others is it bleeds air speed off....you will eventually learn to hold a solid heading, shoot we used to set up and throw out if a hard opening canopy was involved and FYI: all line twists are not caused by poor body position, Reserve handle? WTF? What were you grabbing, once your weight is suspended you should be able to kick out of it. I suppose you fall down when you land also ....stick with your JM's advice....A good one can correct a lot of your problems at this stage. its about airtime airtime airtimerelax kids, all you need is airtime airtime airtime and the ability to relax of course Plan your dive and dive your plan bsbs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
